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WMC
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 142 | TRs | Pics
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WMC
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 Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:16 pm |
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| Allison wrote: | | WMC wrote: | | Oh, I forgot, the Judge should have asked you first, you know better than the legal system. I made that mistake, trying to do some good for many Forest users, before asking your specific permission. |
No need to ask me, the judge should have studied up on the Act, would have answered many questions.
Oh, and WMC, it sounds like you personally have a bone to pick with the FS because Mikki and John can't personally catch every sled scofflaw in the CE district. |
As previously stated, you certainly know what is right better than our legal system and the Law written by Congress. And see above, was waiting for you to name folks in USFS to show your insider expertise. Heck, we should all just back off here and be lectured perhaps! (are you sure that he is still on the CE?).
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:20 pm |
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I'm familiar with the Act, as I am sure you are. Also pretty sure a ton of people know one or both, they are both pretty active in the outdoor community.
I don't understand why you continue to take out your frustration, for what is a totally legit concern, by the way, on anything in a green uniform.
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
I hope that they don't lose too much sleep over this silly history issue that they really don't care about anyway. RIP.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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WMC
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 142 | TRs | Pics
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WMC
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:27 pm |
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| Allison wrote: | | I'm familiar with the Act, as I am sure you are. Also pretty sure a ton of people know one or both, they are both pretty active in the outdoor community.
I don't understand why you continue to take out your frustration, for what is a totally legit concern, by the way, on anything in a green uniform. |
Only if you are wearing green...
As I said, happily- Congratulations sent to Wilderness Watch. WW keeps USFS to the Law in regard to Wilderness. That benefits any of us who appreciate pristine country found in Wilderness.
WMC appreciates the support of Wilderness Watch for adding to the pressure on USFS to control the snowmobile free-for-all deep into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness: http://wildernesswatch.org/newsroom/guardian/Alpine_Lakes_Wilderness_Snowmobile_Trespass.html
This decision is heartening, as WMC supports and observes several other cases in litigation in regard to proper, lawful USFS management of the Forest...now with a little more of smiling anticipation.
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
Here is another one while we're on the subject: http://www.wildwilderness.org/
I think that they are from Bend, OR..
Take it back!
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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Snowbrushy, the Green Mtn Lookout has been the subject of discussion on this board for over a year. Do a search to see that this is the case.
Darrington Historical Society has had 3 fund-raisiers that were advertised by and attended by quite a few people on this forum.
So yes, history is important to many folks on this site.
Thanks for noticing. 
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
Like I care? We want it back. Woods I mean. Habitat for wildlife. I once used your old Kelty backpack to haul new shingles up to Kelly Butte lookout (thankyou), so? Does it really matter?
http://www.wildwilderness.org/
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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WMC
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 142 | TRs | Pics
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WMC
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:53 pm |
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If it is good to fly in rebuilt cabins, I vote for the cabins used for ski trips between Lake Cle Elum and the Icicle- three nights. See p. 26 paragraph title "ski trips" of this first issue of Ski Magazine from 1936- http://skiinghistory.org/classic/SKI%20magazine%201st%20issue%20Jan%201936.pdf
Yea, I would love having three nights worth of cabins along the ski route over Paddy Go Easy, Meadow Cr, Jack Cr. My Marten trapline on skis in the '80s in that area would have been nicer with those cabins...silly me, I slept in a tent.
The decisions were made decades ago about structures in Wilderness, the Law has been written and interpreted. The Green Mtn LO was not originally built and lifted by helo...there is a lot of personal assumption by some here that the Law applies to others, not when it affects me or 'us'!
Congratulations for a decision that protects Wilderness!
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Schroder
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:58 pm |
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Still hung up on helicopters. Helicopters can be used in wilderness. This was not a ruling about helicopters.
I've flown in to these wilderness areas many many times in a helicopter.
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WMC
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 142 | TRs | Pics
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WMC
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:10 pm |
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| Schroder wrote: | | Still hung up on helicopters. Helicopters can be used in wilderness. This was not a ruling about helicopters.
I've flown in to these wilderness areas many many times in a helicopter. |
Not hung up about anything. Your interpretation is not quite correct. And yea, not sure if yours or mine is bigger (ha ha), I have flown over and landed in Wilderness for firefighting "many times", and yea, participated in rescues in Wilderness using helos. So what. Those legitimate and important case-by-case exemptions do not justify construction methods contrary to Law and precedent. USFS must follow Law, not act as if it does not apply to decisions of some in key positions.
As a matter of fact, yes I am aware of our local Irrigation District flying into the "Enchantments" Permit area and ALW to maintain the dams. A prexisting, justified, and continually allowed exemption. So your logic perhaps would be to allow just a little helicopter skiing of the Colchuck Glacier since helos are used there anyway? I think not.
Interesting thought, how would the proponents of the LO repaired and flown as it was like to be camped at Colchuck Lake when the Irrigation District flies in with some noisy power tools? That would make for volumes of whining and complaining here...
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Logbear
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:13 pm |
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Yes, helicopters can be used. I found these passages in the wilderness act
“measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area”, and …”may be taken as may be necessary in the control of fire, insects, and diseases”.
I can't find anything that remotely suggests that using a helicopter to fly in a building would be allowed.
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| Schroder wrote: | | Helicopters can be used in wilderness. |
Fly your damn chopper somewhere else please you are noise pollution to the critters and me.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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WMC
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Joined: 31 May 2010
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WMC
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:23 pm |
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| Snowbrushy wrote: | | Fly your damn chopper somewhere else please you are noise pollution to the critters and me. |
Bravo, and snowmobiles all over the offroad Forest as well!
But I would add agreement to the concept that helos flying on fires is less damaging to Wilderness than would be the huge pack strings required.
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:28 pm |
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| cascadeclimber wrote: | | And if you *truly* want people of other opinions to engage in a thoughtful conversation, you might consider not inviting them in the same sentence in which you called them "idiots". |
Same for not trashing people for having damaged psyches based on where they live. 
Like cascadeclimber, I'm not terribly familiar with the specifics here, but it indeed sounds like rules were stretched if not broken here. It will be interesting to see whether and how the FS appeals and if so how the appeal fares. I like these historic structures, but I also like the non-motorized rules (including the reasonable exemptions that logbear notes).
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| WMC wrote: | | agreement to the concept that helos flying on fires |
Yea, choppers working a forest fire are a valuable tool. Those pilots are brave and they don't shy away from danger.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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