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JennieEl
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Joined: 21 Jul 2011
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JennieEl
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 Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:02 pm |
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Read the conditions again. The OP qualifies under #3, regarding guns and safety, and in that post, the gun was only one part of a larger picture and a larger discussion. BPJ's post I took as being more or less along the lines of several other responses, along with maybe a bit of braggin' about the new gun. Singleshot's post made a hard right angle turn completely off-topic and into the territory covered by "If it's about guns but it's not oudoor (backcountry) related please take it elsewhere."
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BigBear
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BigBear
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:14 pm |
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No, BPJ posted a picture of his gun to show how he may protect himself from crazy people WITH guns. Seriously, its not that big of a deal.
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-lol-
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 767 | TRs | Pics
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-lol-
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:18 pm |
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm |
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| BigBear wrote: | | No, BPJ posted a picture of his gun to show how he may protect himself from crazy people WITH guns. Seriously, its not that big of a deal. |
When you are the Admin of this site, you can make that call. Of course pigs will fly long before that ever happens.  
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
UPTIGHT PEOPLE! Guns are part of this thread! It doesn't matter that you don't like them. Guns are part of the reason this thread was started in the first place. I'm not trying to take this thread over, just offering my perspective.
Big Bear had it right. My point is/was that the only way to protect yourself against someone with a gun is armed yourself. I also mentioned in my first post that even armed I may very well have retreated from said situation.
Instincts are PART of the total picture of personal protection.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Gray
Lazy Hiker
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 1059 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle, WA |
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Gray
Lazy Hiker
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:50 pm |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | Studies about the dependability of gut instinct show that it is no better than random selection. |
Citation?
I have a feeling you are talking about something completely different from what others are talking about.
Deciding between identical Box A and Box B is random selection.
Seeing someone and having several nearly-unconscious observations of them that sum up to a "something ain't right" feeling about them is completely different.
Trust your gut.
--Gray
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SingleShot
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010
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Well, sorry that some thought I took a hard right turn. Perhaps I just described to well my form of personal protection in the woods.
I started carrying a gun back in the 70's when I had an experience I realized I could never have handled without one. Hiking out of Drunken Charlie I reached my vehicle to find 6 guys standing around it looking at the cooler in the back seat. I said hi and they asked me if I'd been to the lake and I said yes. I quickly realized they had all been drinking and one of them asked if there were a lot of people at the lake. I said, maybe 15 - 20. Another asked if there were any women at the lake? I said I thought so. The next question was - does anyone have a gun with them up there?
I'm married, have 2 small girls, and I'm thinking, if they were with me, how in the world would I ever be able to protect them from these guys without a gun.
The next week I bought my first pistol.
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
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Dave Workman
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3699 | TRs | Pics
Location: In the woods, by the big tree |
| Hutch wrote: | I would never knock the original poster for following their gut if something doesn't feel right, but generally speaking I think it's pretty silly to not hike based on some vague fear that you'll be murdered by some psycho. I'll copy a previous post I made on the topic of hiking solo:
| Hutch wrote: | | Not to sound insensitive, but I'm not clear what exactly you're afraid of, unless you're in a high bear (or goat) danger area or taking an especially dangerous route, that would make you think twice about hiking alone. Aside from that incident in 2006 on Mount Pilchuck with the woman and her daughter that were found dead I'm having a hard time recalling a violent attack sort of incident happening on a Cascades hiking trail. |
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That was on the Pinnacle Lake trail.
And then there's this North Bend thing....
http://www.examiner.com/article/king-county-sheriff-cautions-hikers-following-double-homicide
Maybe this guy has it figured out, or maybe not
 Taneum between I-90 and Highway 410. Second weekend of grouse season 2007
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
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onemoremile
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Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1305 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sequim |
 After reading all this I can only wonder what passers by think when I'm on the trail---guns, ropes, axe or hatchet, knife (ves), saw, rope, roll of duct tape, folding shovel, grappling hook, etc....normal backcountry equipment.
“Arbolist? Look up the word. I don’t know, maybe I made it up. Anyway, it’s an arbo-tree-ist, somebody who knows about trees.” G.W. Bush
“Arbolist? Look up the word. I don’t know, maybe I made it up. Anyway, it’s an arbo-tree-ist, somebody who knows about trees.” G.W. Bush
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3590 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:26 pm |
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| Dave Workman wrote: | | But seriously, folks...a bubba with an axe who just happens to show up at the same place I'm going after I've seen him in town, and he's acting a little off-center?
I think the right call was made. The axe bothers me more than the pistol. |
How is an axe more troubleing than a pistol. An axe is far more useful in the woods than is a pistol.
How was this guy acting a little off-center?
As far as the coincidence of showing up at the same trail head after seeing him in town ... twice I have met people at the trailhead after meeting them on the same plane flying into a major city.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:27 pm |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | Studies about the dependability of gut instinct show that it is no better than random selection. |
Perhaps the issue is what we each mean by "gut decision." I would love to see references to the studies to which you refer, as I am quite intrigued by this general topic, and it is very interesting to me to see cases where what I call "gut calls" work well versus where they don't.
Which brings me next to: so what IS a "gut call?" I think of this as being a decision one makes almost instantly, before one can explain to one's self any analysis behind the decision." RumiDude - would you define it similarly or differently?
So sure, there are studies that show even that on certain types of decisions, peoples' gut decisions are even worse than a roll of the dice (e.g. where bias or prejudice is involved). But there are also multiple studies demonstrating that there are cases where people to quite well with gut decisions. For instance, the classic Iowa Gambling Task series of studies, in which people are asked to bet on cards in multiple decks, after having been told one deck is rigged against them. Test participants have been shown to have physiological responses "against" the negatively rigged decks well before they have consciously formed a hypothesis about which deck is rigged against them. There are several interesting follow-on studies that strongly reinforce the takeaway that "intuition" is working well here, including that if people are simultaneously loaded with other cognitive tasks, they continue to do as well at this task (strongly suggesting that it is not the cognitive centers of the brain that are recognizing the pattern at work here, based on other studies that have used such simultaneous loading). Interestingly, college educated people tend to do worse on such tests. So you may possibly be wise to ignore your intuition, RumiDude  .
This does not mean that intuition is always a great guide - as I noted above, there are tests that show cases (such as those that involve prejudices or biases about other people) that are WORSE than a coin toss.
On another note, thanks for your input on the thread, Yana - I agree with your take.
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Helix
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 226 | TRs | Pics
Location: Snohomish Co |
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Helix
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:54 pm |
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| Kim Brown wrote: | I often come upon locals doing stuff on trails; collecting nettles to eat, foraging for mushrooms. You never know. I’d probably be worried about the Beaver Lake guy, too. I've done that trail many time solo, and have never had a problem.
Last spring I was doing a wetland survey on the Suiattle River for the re-route, and was digging a soil pit about 50-60 feet from the road.
Someone driving an old, beat-up Monte Carlo slowed way the hell down, looked at me, then quickly drove off.
For a few minutes, I was a little worried; I mean seriously, a 1980s Monte Carlo? Who drives those but washed-up pimps and meth-lab technicians?
Then I put myself in his shoes and saw what he saw: Me, alone in the middle of nowhere in the pouring rain on a dark February day, digging a hole in a swamp for no apparent reason.
Of the 2 of us, I probably looked the scariest. No wonder he drove off so fast. I scared a washed up pimp/meth lab technician  |
He was just amazed that somebody else thought to stash a body the same place as him. Like consider the irony of digging a hole to burry your victim and finding someone else's victim.
Such is life in the West. And the farther West the more the such.
Such is life in the West. And the farther West the more the such.
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Helix
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Helix
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:07 am |
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Woops didn't mean to threadjack... Deleted
Such is life in the West. And the farther West the more the such.
Such is life in the West. And the farther West the more the such.
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trestle
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trestle
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:04 am |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | johnson37 wrote: | | Rumi, be sure to let us know when you get that hair split. |
I'm sure you will let me know. *bigstayclassygrins*
Rumi |
Yes, it never gets old watching you question others' decision making and then try to explain it as "read my post more carefully."
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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cefire
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cefire
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:30 am |
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You might also mention the recent and final work of Daryl Bem here - 'gut' decision-making is my graduate school focus and you sum it up well; often but not always gut decision-making performs significantly better than chance although we 'feel' that it should be as RumiDude puts it equal to 'random selection'...
There is the way we feel things should be and the way evidence strongly suggests things are, these two are not always aligned well.
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