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Elvis
Shuffl'n



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Location: del Boca Vista
Elvis
Shuffl'n
PostSun May 27, 2012 11:29 pm 
For years I've wanted a kayak. So far, my lifetime of kayaking experience to date amounts to probably a total of 45 minutes. Or less. I've started "Shopping around" but have realized that I really don't know anything about what 'features' would be important to me. I'd love to hear from the good people of nwhikers who at one time were new to kayaking or have been through this process. Here are some of my questions/issues/concerns: **Suggestion: skip to item "d)" below** a) Do I want a sit on top or a sit inside model? Starting out I expect most of the time to be on pretty calm lakes, near a shore, but possibly a little windy. Examples: Baker Lake, Lake Samish, Lake Whatcom, Lake Padden, Diablo Lake. Eventually maybe a really calm river float or a calm day in Bellingham Bay. Day trips only. b) The really inexpensive models ($250) seem really wide and short whereas the expensive ones are more skinny and longer. Why is that? I assume the wide/stubby ones are more stable... but some of these look ridiculously wide... visions of me sitting in an empty kiddie wading pool floating around a lake come to mind. There's probably a happy medium somewhere in-between... what would be a good length and width for a beginner? c) Found the 'inflatable kayak's for about a third of the cheap solid (wide) kayaks. Heck, it comes with oars and no need to mount it on the roof either! And it can seat two! I can go through two or three of those before paying for one cheap solid kayak. Then I have visions that I may as well just float around on my $5 air mattress and call that Kayaking if I had a paddle. Certainly, price is an issue but more important than that is that I want to get good value out of my purchase. Imagine a person snowshoeing for the first time... going out and buying a pair of snowshoes like the kids model that leaves footprints shaped like bear tracks... thinking that's kind of neat but not realizing just how inadequate they would be for what you are expecting. That's what I want to avoid doing. d) So... now that I forced myself to type out all this stuff... what I probably need to do is go find out what kind/type of kayak is given to tourists who wander in off the street to go on a kayak tour in anacortes or Friday Harbor. Probably that's what I should be starting with. Anyone know what that might be or what charachteristics those types of kayaks may have? Thanks in advance. ~E Edited to add: found this somewhat useful .pdf via the Cabella's website: http://www.cabelas.com/assets/product_files/pdf/oldtown_kayak_canoe.pdf

"Ill habits gather unseen degrees, as brooks make rivers, rivers run to seas." ~John Dryden My Trip List
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Schenk
Off Leash Man



Joined: 16 Apr 2012
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Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain
Schenk
Off Leash Man
PostMon May 28, 2012 10:11 am 
There is just simply too much to say about the topic but I can offer some generalities: 1) There is a difference between Flat water kayaks and Whitewater kayaks, a BIG one. Many entry level/all-round Kayaks try to do a bit of both and essentially suck at everything. For most outdoor enthusiasts, entry level kayaks end up as the kids kayak at the lake, or a piece of brightly colored plastic laying around taking up space, after they get something more appropriate for their ability and travel goals. 2) Decide for yourself how deep into the sport of Kayaking you wish to get. If you are certain you will become an enthusiast then skip buying "entry level" kayaks. An athletic person will soon become bored with a slower, less responsive kayak. 3) If you want to do both flatwater and whitewater, you will need 2 kayaks. Best advice is to seek an experienced enthusiast/mentor or a reputable dealer and a knowledgable sales person who can guide you through your options.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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goinbigg17
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goinbigg17
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PostMon May 28, 2012 10:41 am 
I would skip any kayak that only costs $250 brand new. This boat will be short and fat and wont go anywhere, except for in circles. Kayak's aren't cheap, but decent day touring boats can be had for $700-1,000 new, or probably less on Craigslist. I would get at least a 12ft boat, it will provide decent tracking and speed, plus give you some storage for day trip supplies. A 14ft boat is good, many of them are highly capable of overnight trips, and provide you good speed and stability for whatever conditions you encounter.

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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
PostMon May 28, 2012 10:47 am 
I bought a $300 (when new) kayak a year ago or so, used but mint condition, for $150, came with a paddle and a life vest. I like it, it's great for relatively flat water, but I'm just too heavy for it. It has a weight designation of 275 or 300 lbs, I forget, and I'm 275, and that just doesn't work. There has to be a comfortable margin between your weight and the max weight of the boat ( I found out). I never tipped over, but I never felt entirely stable, either, and I have some experience with kayaks. Here's the one I have: Dimension Escapade I'll tell you what, why don't you borrow my kayak, putter around in it for a while, a few weeks, a month, no problem, and that might answer some of your questions, like how much do you really like kayaking, and what kind of boat do you need. If you like it, I'll sell it to you for $100, including paddle and vest. If it's not what you want, just drop it by the house one evening. I really don't use it, I need another boat, bigger, with a weight rating of at least 400 lbs.

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Elvis
Shuffl'n



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Elvis
Shuffl'n
PostMon May 28, 2012 11:00 am 
Just one more example of why I love the nwhiker.net community. Y'all are awesome! Each of the above posts have been VERY helpful and I'm very appreciative. Slugman - PM coming your way.

"Ill habits gather unseen degrees, as brooks make rivers, rivers run to seas." ~John Dryden My Trip List
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
PostMon May 28, 2012 11:03 am 
I edited the post, I finally figured out exactly what my boat is, a Dimension Escapade. doh.gif I also have a spray skirt for it, not that this boat is good for white water or anything, but it helps to keep the wet stuff out and the dry stuff in. hmmm.gif I've had some fun with it, on the Sammamish Slough over by Bothell Landing park, and in the bay (forget the name) of lake Washington over by the Arboretum. But I see now the weight rating is "225 to 275 lbs", so my bulk is inappropriate for this boat, which is not the boat's problem. But being tall is not an issue, there is plenty of room (I'm 6'3").

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SergioNapelo
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SergioNapelo
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PostMon May 28, 2012 11:19 am 
slugman, if Elvis don't want your kayak, can I have it? hockeygrin.gif tnx, Sergey

"I will lift up my eyes to the mountains. From where shall my help come. My help comes from the LORD, who made heaven and earth!" - David, King of Israel 1,000 BC
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
PostMon May 28, 2012 11:34 am 
I'm pretty sure he wants it, but if not, I'll PM you. I can honestly say you could scour Craig's List for months and never see a mint-condition kayak with paddle, life vest and spray skirt for $100.

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SergioNapelo
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SergioNapelo
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PostMon May 28, 2012 11:49 am 
Slugman wrote:
I can honestly say you could scour Craig's List for months and never see a mint-condition kayak
and brag to all your friends that the "Slugman" used it! biggrin.gif

"I will lift up my eyes to the mountains. From where shall my help come. My help comes from the LORD, who made heaven and earth!" - David, King of Israel 1,000 BC
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon May 28, 2012 1:52 pm 
I have had 3 boats. I'm down to two now. If you are patient, contact REI or a kayak club and ask when they are having a demo day. Olympia has had some and I'm sure Seattle has some. Or, you can cross over to Port Townsend and try out kayaks at Pygmy Kayak. They are on the waterfront. They sell kits and plans for wooden boats. They are beautiful boats. I started with a double, open cockpit--Old Town Loon 16 footer. I wanted room for my dog, and it did work for that. It was 75 pounds, water splashed in and if things got rough, I'd be sitting in water. I went to REI in Portland, and got a 14.5 foot long plastic Carolina, made by perception kayaks. I liked it. I still like it. I had it (near shore) on Lake Superior when there was a small craft warning. I was with a group and we went out and played in the waves. There was an on shore wind so we would be blown to shore in case of tipping. My Carolina bobbed around in 4 foot waves like a cork. I have a spray skirt. It is plastic, wide, and still heavy at 55 pounds. It is comfy. That's another thing, Make sure you will be comfortable sitting in a kayak. We've gone 3 or 4 hours between get outs, and your butt and legs can start getting uncomfortable. I also have another plastic boat, a perception Eclipse 17 feet and not as wide as the Carolina. It is a bit more tippy. I don't feel as confident in it because I haven't had it out in big waves so I don't know how it would do. It is heavy but is faster than the Carolina. It can also hold more gear--I'd like to do Ross Lake someday. I can roll half way. biggrin.gif If you get one, go to a warm lake, like Sun Lakes, have somebody along, and tip over and practice getting out. Then try to get back in. The MOST important item, and more important than the boat--something you'll want to splurge on, is a paddle. Think about it, you'll be doing a repetitive motion. I splurged and I'm glad I did. You can get a cheap, heavy paddle or go for a light weight, strong paddle. They come in round, oval, and probably some other shape. Safety items are life jacket--get one made for paddling, whistle, paddle float, maybe neoprene gear, a bilge pump and maybe a strobe. Oh, don't forget a spray skirt. A spray skirt will keep you dry and will also keep you warm. I've been out in December and stayed warm. Colorful is good. This is a sport where it is good to be visible. The joke on Lake Superior was that Kayaks were speed bumps for motorboats. The hardest part of kayaking for me, was and is getting the boat on top of the car. I worked out a solution. I won't go into that here. Getting in and out can be difficult, depending on the boat. Getting out can be real difficult after you've been sitting for a few hours. My kayak buddy got an inflatable. I need to try it out. I can't think of the brand, but it has a real kayak shape to it. He got it for traveling with. It is easier to put the inflatable in the bathroom of their camper than a rigid kayak on top. That's pretty much it. Check out demo day dates. You can't beat trying out a bunch of boats before deciding.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Navy salad
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Navy salad
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PostTue May 29, 2012 10:11 am 
It all depends on what you end up doing with your kayak. Do you just want a "play boat" for splashing around in lakes? If so, most anything will work. Most of these are plastic (i.e., pretty much indestructible "tupperware" boats), short, wide, slow and heavy for their size. You can get them cheap, as others have pointed out. I don't have any experience with inflatables, but I wouldn't think of them as a "kayak" as much as a canoe. Then there are river or "whitewater" boats, which look much like the playboats (generally shorter, wider, and plastic), but with a little more care going into the design. River kayaking requires a higher skill level, generally including profisciency at boat-handling and the ability to do an eskimo roll (not that difficult in this type of boat, especially if you take a class -- the Northwest Outdoor Center on Lake Union has such classes). It's very fun and exciting to kayak down whitewater, but it can be dangerous and isn't everyone's thing. When I took a class in whitewater kayaking (about 15 years ago), most of the class were twenty or thirty something males. Then there are sea kayaks. These range in price from maybe $500 (for an older used boat) to more than $4000. Most of these are made of fiberglass or kevlar (although you can get cheaper, and much heavier, boats in plastic), and are longer (generally 17 feet +/-) for singles, very sleek and fast, and with the capacity to hold as much as two weeks worth of food and water. I've known a lot of hikers who moved on to sea kayaking when their joints just couldn't handle the stress of hiking any more, but who still crave the multi-day outdoor experience. The premier area for sea kayaking in the northwest is Vancouver island, but there are many (a few TOO many) who enjoy kayaking the San Juans and large inland lakes. I've never known ANYONE who immediately purchased a kayak who still liked the same boat years later, since you don't really know your preferences until you have significant experience. For this reason, I highly recommend renting or starting cheap. The Northwest Outdoor Center, mentioned above, used to have a deal where you could try out a variety of boats, paddling around Lake Union (a fun place to paddle, especially for beginners) for cheap. The Mountaineers have particularly good classes for newbie sea kayakers; plus the Northwest Outdoor Ctr has a variety of classes.

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Daryl
Big Shot Economist



Joined: 05 Dec 2008
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Daryl
Big Shot Economist
PostTue May 29, 2012 12:39 pm 
Figure out what you want first, as others have said. Sea kayaking slow river or lake kayaking whitewater kayaking I never did sea kayaking. I started doing whitewater kayaking but gave up when i realized that's more of a life style then a hobby you do a handful of times a year. I had a Riot Grind and a Wavesport Z (I'm a big guy so my kayak options were limited...). Both great boats in moving water but not fun at all in flat water unless you wanted to show off all the flat water tricks you can do. slow river and lake kayaking is my favorite. I have an 11 foot old town loon, my wife has a 9 foot old town otter, which is kind of a kid boat/toy but if you are not in a race it does the job just fine. I like to fish from a kayak, or just explore a river or lake. I know the longer kayaks are faster but i prefer the shorter kayaks, probably from my time dabbling with the short whitewater boats. I like maneuvering through shallows and marshes, getting back in places bigger boats can't. I'd stay away from inflatables. I had one briefly and hated it. To much work, even in moving water, not to mention inflating and deflating. And a lot of people talk down the simple recreation kayaks that do everything ok but nothing well and run about $300. I haven't shopped for one in years, but the old town otter or the perception swifty are good examples. If you go out every weekend for hours long trips you'll probably want something more, but if it's something you do every once and awhile and just go out to have fun you'll be very happy with one of these. i actually suggest to get one of these first and figure out what you like to do and how much you use it. One of my friends that never half asses anything bought two fancy 14' kayaks and gear and spent well over $3,000. They have sat in his garage unused for 5 years now, but they sure look sweet!

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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue May 29, 2012 1:30 pm 
This is the inflatable my friend has. They aren't the old style anymore. I want to try his out. http://www.rei.com/product/736947/advanced-elements-advancedframe-convertible-inflatable-kayak I believe The Used Dog could ride in it. To put a dog in an inflatable, you put down a sleeping pad to protect the boat from claws. The Used Dog went out in my Loon once, on Walupt Lake. I hugged the shoreline. My training method for dogs in kayaks is to thump them (gently) on the head with the paddle if they start getting antsy. He was quite nervous, as dogs are on their first trip out. My Golden soon got so she enjoyed kayaking. Seals popping up next to you will tend to get the dog excited, so the gentle tap must be used. Dogs have no sense of the need to be balanced in the boat--stable kayaks are best. I only wish they could paddle. I have strayed, sorry. I could talk about the Jack Russell terrier who rode on the deck of the kayak...

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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GeoHiker
Rocky Walker



Joined: 26 Feb 2005
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GeoHiker
Rocky Walker
PostWed May 30, 2012 1:19 am 
If you get out by Monroe, you're welcome to try out my kayak in the lake. I have the same one treeswarper has the 14.5 Perception. If all you want to do is poke around a calm lake or river the boat Slugman has would be your best bet to get started. The lakes you mentioned can get nasty in a hurry though, so safety is some thing you seriously need to look at. Spray skirt and the ability to self rescue was critical with me. When I started looking for a kayak 5 years ago, I knew I wanted some thing that I wouldn't out grow in a short time with enough room for a 3-4 day trip. The Carolina is a stable, worthy boat that has worked well for me. It's not a speedster, but does most things without too much fuss. It's a bit heavy, but I have no problem throwing it on my shoulders or loading it on my Honda. I was able to catch 20 or so humpies in the Snohomish Riv. last year, so plenty of room for fishing gear. I've only flipped it once while fishing the past 5 years. That happened in E.WA when I top loaded the deck for a short jog across the lake. I was totally shocked it happened so fast. Luckily it was in warm water early Oct. on a sunny day. You will flip eventually, so do like treeswarper suggested and practice in warm water on a calm day. Classes are a good idea, but not a requirement. You'll find the line of Perception kayaks are a popular, quality boat. I got mine new for $500 without a rudder on a killer deal, but see them selling used for as low as $400-600 every so often on craigslist. The rudder isn't a requirement, so save your self $150 and learn to handle the boat without. I've had no problem in 25 mph winds in rough water. Anything over 30 mph gets hairy though, so a rudder would come in handy. I've wanted to take my boat out on the open ocean at Neah Bay, but haven't had the nerve. Looks like a blast playing in the surf!..... up.gif I've yet to teach Rocky to sit in the boat between my legs. I worked with him on the Wenatchee River for days last year and he just won't do it. He freaks out as soon as I push off and won't sit still. I've seen people with carpeted platforms on the rear deck for a dog, but after my experience with the top load flip I could see Rocky going over board in about 10 seconds with the first fish caught or duck flying by. Oh, another tip is always tether and dry bag EVERY THING no matter how short a paddle. I was able to dry out my fishing pack, but killed my cell phone. Took me over an hour to fish out my rod in 20 ft. of water, but I got it back...... up.gif Kayaking on a quiet out of the way lake is an awesome experience. Spada Lake is right up there on my list. You can often paddle right up to wildlife, beavers, otters, deer, bear and they hardly know you are there.
Out fishing on Twin Lk Alaska
Out fishing on Twin Lk Alaska
Bald eagle at Little Torfu Lk Yukon
Bald eagle at Little Torfu Lk Yukon

You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostWed May 30, 2012 6:34 am 
Somebody else in my Carolina on the Cowlitz River.
Somebody else in my Carolina on the Cowlitz River.
My Eclipse, as far as we could go up the Tilton river.
My Eclipse, as far as we could go up the Tilton river.
Flames make a boat go faster.
Flames make a boat go faster.
I customized the Eclipse with the flames.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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