[John Mac]

Speaking of begging for forgiveness, has anyone here been cited by DNR for a Pass violation, or seen them writing someone up in a parking area?

[Schroder]

[Magellan]

[treeswarper]

I assume by GP you mean the Gifford Pinchot? What part?

[Ranger Smith]

Its actually part of the MBS but administered by the GP, SW of Rainier

[silence]

a perfect example of this is the hoh river road that passes thru dnr land to get to the main visitor's center at the beginning of the hoh valley .. they do not require a discover pass to travel on that road .. however they do require it to camp in the dnr campgrounds along the way .. and i suspect there are signs along the road that say Discover Pass Required ... meaning you should have one if you plan to camp in any of these if you look on the dnr site here, and download the maps http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Pages/Home.aspx you will find the trailheads and campgrounds where the pass is required (no roads) .. i even see that not all trailheads on dnr land, esp those that lead into the ONP in Jefferson Co (campgrounds yes, trailheads no) .. are not designated as needing one ... i called the ONP about this and he said "as far as I know a Discover pass is not required at these trailheads" .. I told him we had heard otherwise directly from DNR and he said, to be absolutely sure then move up the chain of command instead of taking the word from this first call .. btw it's a $99 fine it's interesting that the whole Tahoma Ski Trails is included .. so now you need a Discover pass, including a Snowpark pass? Or does the Snowpark cover it? But, obviously later in the season you need a Discover pass to park and recreate there even though it says you don't need any pass to park there in summer on the MTTA site what a nightmare!!!

[DIYSteve]

The controlling statutes are codified at RCW 79.080.005, et. seq.. RCW 79A.080.020(1) provides:

[Eric]

Steve, how would it work if there was already an pre-existing right of way or easement that is laid out in a contract or memorandum of understanding or property deed? Would the legislation supercede the right to pass through?

[DIYSteve]

The answer to that question would start with a reading of RCW 79A.80.010(7):

[caseynw]

[Ranger Smith]

I received an email back from the FS basically stating, yep, you need a Discover Pass on State land, buy one, it helps cleanup their garbage dumps. Nothing about road agreements and access agreements, which they have as I have worked for both agencies.

[tod701]

In addition to other locations, per RCW79A.80.020 the D-pass is required to park or operate on “recreation site or lands” and as defined by RCW79.02.010 (13) that includes all the various trust lands. Based on this, the way the law is currently written you would need a D-pass to cross the checkerboard of DNR managed land if you are not on a county road. If you combine this with the change to the law as a result of 2012 Senate Bill SB6387 which allows the agencies to keep the infraction revenue, this could be seen as an easy new revenue stream by an agency seeking to address funding shortfalls.

[silence]

major suck ... you know .. i have no problem with the pass if you are using their trails or their campgrounds .. but for access roads to federal lands where passes and permits are also being required .. this pisses me off

[tod701]

[Ranger Smith]

I think this covers ingress and egress for the FS but, hey, I'm not an attorney. § 212.7 Access procurement by the United States. top (a) Existing or proposed forest roads that are or will be part of a transportation system of a State, county, or other local public road authority. Forest roads that are or will be part of a transportation system of a State, county, or other local public road authority and are on rights-of-way held by a State, county, or other local public road authority may be constructed, reconstructed, improved, or maintained by the Forest Service when there is an appropriate agreement with the State, county, or other local public road authority under 23 U.S.C. 205 and the construction, reconstruction, improvement, or maintenance is essential to provide safe and economical access to National Forest System lands. (b) Acquisition of easements and rights of use. Except as otherwise provided in the regulations of this part, easements for road and trail construction across non-Federal lands and easements or rights of use over non-Federal roads and trails will be acquired in the name of the United States of America and its assigns. The easements or rights of use may be acquired by purchase, condemnation, donation, or as a reciprocal for permits or easements for roads or trails to be constructed or for easements over or permits to use existing roads or trails. (c) Methods of compensation for easements and rights of use acquired by the United States. Compensation in negotiated acquisitions may be: (1) By payment from appropriated funds; (2) Pursuant to reservation in the grant of easement to the United States whereby the grantor reserves the right to require haulers of Federal timber or other Federal products over the road conveyed or thereafter constructed by the grantor to make payments to the grantor in accordance with the terms of the reservation; (3) By granting reciprocal rights; or (4) By a combination of these methods. (d) Cooperative construction and use agreements. Where areas, partly lands administered by the Forest Service and partly private or other ownership are undeveloped or inadequately developed by roads, the Chief will, to the extent feasible and advantageous to the United States, join in planning, constructing, reconstructing, improving, maintaining, and using an adequate road system on the basis of each party bearing the proportion of the cost attributable to the anticipated benefits as set forth in §212.9. (e) Condemnation. Where access across non-Federal land or over a non-Federal road or trail cannot be obtained through negotiations with reasonable promptness, condemnation will be undertaken. (f) Access over non-Federal land and use of non-Federal roads or trails on a temporary basis. The Chief may negotiate a temporary agreement for access over non-Federal land and for use of an existing non-Federal road or trail where there is immediate need for temporary access for limited purposes that can be economically met by such procedure, or where the foreseeable need does not justify the expenditures necessary to provide a permanent road or trail. (g) Use and control of interests in roads, trails, and easements acquired by the United States. Interests in roads, trails, and easements acquired by the United States shall be under the control of the United States, subject to approved reservations, limitations and other provisions set forth in the easement, permit, or other indenture. This control by the United States may include restricting or conditioning the use of the interest owned by the United States in the road, trail, or easement where necessary. (25 Stat. 357, 26 Stat. 1103, 30 Stat. 35–36, 1233, 38 Stat. 430, 46 Stat. 1421, 64 Stat. 82, 72 Stat. 885, as amended, 74 Stat. 215, 78 Stat. 1089; 16 U.S.C. 471, 478, 498, 525, 528–531, 532, 551, 572, 23 U.S.C. 101, 205, 40 U.S.C. 257, 258a et seq.; 42 Atty. Gen. Op. No. 7; Comp. Gen. B–65972, May 19, 1947; 40 Comp. Gen. 372; 41 Comp. Gen. 1; 41 Comp. Gen. 576, and 42 Comp. Gen. 590) [30 FR 5476, Apr. 16, 1965, as amended at 39 FR 27650, July 31, 1974; 62 FR 58654, Oct. 30, 1997. Redesignated and amended at 62 FR 58654, Oct. 30, 1997; 66 FR 3217, Jan. 12, 2001; 70 FR 68288, Nov. 9, 2005]