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tod701
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Joined: 28 Aug 2009
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Location: Stanwood |
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tod701
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 Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:55 am |
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| B+L wrote: | | That might be what the statute says, but a reasonable person will go by what they find on discoverpass.wa.gov. |
That is all well and good as long you assume that all law enforcement officers are a "reasonable person" and will ignore the law in deference to what a bureaucrat has posted on a website.
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B+L
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
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Location: Vashon Island, Washington |
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B+L
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:08 pm |
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| tod701 wrote: | | B+L wrote: | | That might be what the statute says, but a reasonable person will go by what they find on discoverpass.wa.gov. |
That is all well and good as long you assume that all law enforcement officers are a "reasonable person" and will ignore the law in deference to what a bureaucrat has posted on a website. |
I'm talking about how people determine whether or not a pass is required, not enforcement.
I mean it in the sense that a reasonable person could be expected to go by what is published on the Discover Pass site and not be expected to have the legal expertise to dig through the relevant RCWs, WAC, case law, etc, and make any actual sense out of it.
We have the passes we need, but we're not going to drive around with our Discover Pass permanently mounted just because we are paranoid about overzealous enforcement. We tend to worry more about things like vicious, unprovoked coon attacks.
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silence
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silence
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:12 pm |
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i think in this case claiming ignorance will get you nowhere .. apparently they are aimed to enforce for the revenue .. so get the pass .. all the passes
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
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B+L
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Location: Vashon Island, Washington |
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B+L
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:45 pm |
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It's not claiming ignorance to go by what they publish on their own site. It is, after all, where people are directed to learn more about the pass.
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caseynw
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caseynw
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:28 pm |
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| tod701 wrote: | | If you combine this with the change to the law as a result of 2012 Senate Bill SB6387 which allows the agencies to keep the infraction revenue, this could be seen as an easy new revenue stream by an agency seeking to address funding shortfalls. |
Which agencies? Like a non-DNR agency?
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tod701
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tod701
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:39 pm |
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| caseynw wrote: | | tod701 wrote: | | If you combine this with the change to the law as a result of 2012 Senate Bill SB6387 which allows the agencies to keep the infraction revenue, this could be seen as an easy new revenue stream by an agency seeking to address funding shortfalls. |
Which agencies? Like a non-DNR agency? |
WDFW, DNR and Parks can write infractions at any site where the d-pass is required, not just their own.
WDFW has written infractions at the DNR managed Tahuya Forest.
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n16ht5
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n16ht5
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Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:52 am |
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Just say no to Douchebag Passes.
The older I get the less I am willing to put up with all the government trash. If only the peasants would revolt. If no one bought one they would give up.
Who am I kidding? 
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caseynw
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caseynw
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Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:26 pm |
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My friend revolts, but it just ends up in $100 tickets.
If anything, he's making the entire pass system worthwhile.
I suspect they probably make a good chunk of discover pass revenue off citations.
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contour5
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contour5
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Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:28 pm |
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Well, better to be revolting than to be in Sultan, anyway...
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iampam
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iampam
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:22 pm |
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| caseynw wrote: | | My friend revolts, but it just ends up in $100 tickets.
If anything, he's making the entire pass system worthwhile.
I suspect they probably make a good chunk of discover pass revenue off citations. |
The money from citations goes to the courts, not to the agency writing the ticket. You can get the $99 ticket reduced $40 by buying a $30 DP, so they would make some money in that case, but if you just pay the $99, they get nothing.
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iampam
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iampam
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:26 pm |
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| monorail wrote: | | You're supposed to be able to park your car for 15 (or maybe it's 30) minutes without a Discover Pass in any state park or DNR land (there are supposed to be areas designated for that). Also, no pass is required to use paid campgrounds. Of course, to access the campgrounds or 15-minute parking areas you have to drive through... so I'm pretty sure you don't need a pass for that. I think the state is pretty desperate to sell more passes, so they're not too forthcoming about these exceptions. |
The 15 minute thing only applies in spaces marked for that. Parks don't _have_ to provide these spaces, but I think most of the bigger ones do. They probably don't like to publish their location.
At Cape Disappointment they have some parking spaces like that in the Waikiki parking lot. They're primarily used by people picking up pizza orders from the amazing pizza vendor there, but you could also use them to run into the bathroom, or have an extremely brief visit to Waikiki beach.
You do not need a pass if you're camping, but they do charge for extra vehicles ($10) so you can't just visit a state park without a DP and use the excuse that you are visiting a friend in the campground. You would either need a DP or the receipt from having paid for the extra vehicle.
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iampam
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iampam
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:28 pm |
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| moonspots wrote: | A guy I know just found out that this isn't the case. He drove into a state-owned park somewhere out ther, looked it over, didn't even slow down (didn't like the looks of it for whatever reason, and then right back out). Ranger gave him a ticket, he went to court, explained the situation and was fined $100.
 Commie bastards! |
I call BS on your friend's story. If he just drove through without slowing down, the ranger would not have time to get the plate number and check for DP. They don't _have_ to be hanging from the yellow hang tags, they're valid even if you just have the receipt sitting on the dash.
My guess is your friend parked and left the vehicle and came back to find a ticket, and lied and said they did not stop.
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iampam
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iampam
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:39 pm |
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As to the original poster and his complaint, we had this discussion on here last year. Technically you _can_ get a ticket for driving through a DNR area without a pass, but it is extremely unlikely. It is not the policy of DNR to enforce that under normal circumstances. They're not setting up roadblocks to check passes.
If you visit a state park with a manned entrance booth, than they might require a pass or whatever to get in. But for DNR roads, if you are going to pass through and not park, you really don't need to worry about it.
http://m.chinookobserver.com/mobile/article_91d5e1b4-acdc-11e0-85dd-001cc4c002e0.html
| Quote: | | “Technically if you drive through DNR land on a road that is not intermingled with other road systems, you need a Discover Pass,” Department of Natural Resources Recreation Program Manager Mark Mauren said. “We have instructed our enforcement officials to only check for a Discover Pass if you are parked and using DNR lands for recreation.” |
The part about needing a pass for recreation only is not entirely true, but the point of the quote is that you are extremely unlikely to get a ticket if all you are doing is driving through DNR land without stopping.
That is from a year ago, but I have not seen or heard that DNR has changed their policy on enforcing this.
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AR
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Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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Location: Saratoga Passage |
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Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:55 pm |
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| silence wrote: | | that's gotta be total bs .. if you are traveling thru to federal land and not parking to hike on state land .. |
Okay, I did not read past the first page. And frankly, I have yet to drink nearly enough to deal this stuff.
The only thing i can think of is...if a got a damn yellow bonnet pass and the damn plates on the truck are from Washington. Leave me the hell alone.
...wait...are we just going to hang here or go hiking?
...wait...are we just going to hang here or go hiking?
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Jeff Chapman
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| iampam wrote: | | The money from citations goes to the courts, not to the agency writing the ticket. You can get the $99 ticket reduced $40 by buying a $30 DP, so they would make some money in that case, but if you just pay the $99, they get nothing. |
Last legislative session more than one bill addressing the Discover Pass passed. SSB 6387 does indeed return a large portion of the fines to the agencies.
Sec. 2. RCW 7.84.100 and 1987 c 380 s 10 are each amended to read as follows:
(4) The county treasurer shall remit the money received under RCW 79A.80.080 to the state treasurer. Money remitted under this subsection to the state treasurer must be deposited in the recreation access pass account established under RCW 79A.80.090.
I do feel that the intent of Senator Ranker's bill was to encourage the agencies to enforce the Discover Pass requirements on users engaged in recreation....parked vehicles. There were many complaints about "why should I buy a pass if that guy doesn't and doesn't get dinged for it".
I also do not feel that most DNR employees want to pull over vehicles driving down the road to check their passes. However, just because they don't do it may be a credit to DNR employees, but it doesn't change the fact that the law includes "operate on" state land, not just "parked on". Even the Chair of the House Natural Resource Committee, Rep. Blake (not to mention Senator Hargrove), has said that the pass should be a parking pass. Well, then the legislature should make it a parking pass. If this is something you feel strongly about, let your legislators know that this is a change you would like. Crossing DNR lands is not the same thing as entering a gate at a National Park.
I do not feel though that anyone in the agencies was out to scalp recreationists. They had a target amount of money to raise, and keeping the pass at $30 meant that they had to push the threshold on what the public will accept.
Idaho is going to lower their $40 fee for in-state residents and just have a $10 tag/vehicle for all state lands. It would be like having the WDFW Vehicle Access Pass for all state lands. That may be more efficient and more will be sold, but whether it makes up for the $30 drop is yet to be seen.
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