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dicey
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 1:31 pm 
Just passing this along... http://zacstracs.com/Newsletters/

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Schenk
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 1:51 pm 
Thanks for posting this; this is good for folks to be aware of. Look alike, or similar looking, products are not always safe and acceptable in the backcountry.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Tom
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 2:29 pm 
I just wonder how valid / reasonable the test is. Plays out more like an infomercial.

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Slugman
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 2:55 pm 
I liked it. They did say, right in the title, that it was unscientific. They were also holding the gear to a very high standard: to be emergency equipment that would save a life where seconds count, and the snow has hardened to almost a concrete-like substance. (Avalanche rescue) I heartily agree with the general principle that emergency rescue equipment should not be a cheap imitation product. Yes, they are trying to sell product, but in this case I think that's a good thing.

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Tom
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 3:15 pm 
They said it was unscientific in terms of sample size. In other words, they can't say whether they had a bad sample. I'm not referring to that, just whether the test is reasonable. I don't know if turning a shovel upside down, jumping into the air, and stomping on it is a reasonable test to conclude a shovel is unsuitable.

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ScottP
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 5:52 pm 
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GeoHiker
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 7:08 pm 
Good info. I'd agree the testing was a bit dramatic. lol.gif Take the shovel outside in the snow and test it there under conditions you would expect to use it. It's not advertised as a heavy duty shovel or for rescue, so you get what you pay for. $10 shovel is better than nothing, so it could be useful for many. I'll have to grab two the next time I'm at Costco. up.gif

You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
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jimmymac
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PostFri Jan 18, 2013 11:03 pm 
A $10 shovel is fine for digging a foot well or a cave. Penetrating and prying solidified and debris-reinforced snow is where the investment in better metal could pay off.

"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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SergioNapelo
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 12:18 am 
I just successfully broke my cheep shovel (one that was described above) digging snow cave today! (It was just second day using it in the snow...) Not good for avalanche rescue!

"I will lift up my eyes to the mountains. From where shall my help come. My help comes from the LORD, who made heaven and earth!" - David, King of Israel 1,000 BC
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Magellan
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 12:44 am 
It would seem from various abbreviated tests that the only shovels that dont deform or break in hard avy debris are the 6061 with the t6 heat treatment. Now if you want lightweight and pretty for scooping out a snow seat then the costco shovels are the way to go.

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Tom
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 1:27 am 
SergioNapelo wrote:
I just successfully broke my cheep shovel (one that was described above) digging snow cave today! (It was just second day using it in the snow...) Not good for avalanche rescue!
How did it break? Are you sure it's the same shovel? I bought a couple of the lifeline shovels for the cars a while back. They have a little more flex than my avy shovel but I'd be surprised if they broke digging a snow cave.

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SergioNapelo
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 7:38 pm 
Tom wrote:
SergioNapelo wrote:
I just successfully broke my cheep shovel (one that was described above) digging snow cave today! (It was just second day using it in the snow...) Not good for avalanche rescue!
How did it break? Are you sure it's the same shovel? I bought a couple of the lifeline shovels for the cars a while back. They have a little more flex than my avy shovel but I'd be surprised if they broke digging a snow cave.
I think I was pushing on the handle to hard, when trying to brake harder parts of the snow. It worked fine when chopping, but when I hit hard snow and was trying to brake it off, shovel broke. Shovel is good for soft snow, but when digging through hard layers, or hardened snow and there is no time to think about being careful with your shovel at avalanche rescue, I belive it is better to have equipment that can be depended on. I guess if I am going to the mountains with someone, I would like for them to have the best shovel possible, so they can digg me out if needed, and they deserve same from me.
(it is same brand as one sold at Costco, but I bought it in different store)

"I will lift up my eyes to the mountains. From where shall my help come. My help comes from the LORD, who made heaven and earth!" - David, King of Israel 1,000 BC
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dave allyn
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 8:48 pm 
SergioNapelo wrote:
I guess if I am going to the mountains with someone, I would like for them to have the best shovel possible, so they can digg me out if needed, and they deserve same from me.
Well said, Sergio. As posted above, in tests only shovels made from 6061 aluminum with T6 heat treatment were able to dig two holes 6 ft. deep, 6 ft. long, in avalanche debris. Your hiking partner is worth paying the extra money. Use your $10 shovel for digging out the car or building kickers.

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Tom
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PostSun Jan 20, 2013 9:49 pm 
Wow, that's a more impressive demonstration. Thanks.

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DIYSteve
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PostMon Jan 21, 2013 12:02 pm 
Using an avy shovel for a few outings is insufficient information to make a choice. IME, nearly all Al avy shovel failures result from fatigue. Flexible Al alloy shovel blades cycle with each dig and can cause work hardening which, in turn, leads to fatigue cracks and ultimate travel. The key is to use a shovel made by a manufacturer with a history of using a sufficient choice of Al alloy with its designs.

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