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RodF
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PostSat Oct 18, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Lookout Billerina wrote:
Most people take the relative quiet of our "wilderness" areas for granted.  A finger snap in time ago those mountains were absolutely filled with noise.  Industrial strength noise.

Yes, and not all that much earlier, by 3000 feet of glacial ice, the evidence of which is also dramatically revealed in your beautiful photos.

Wilderness preserves both natural and human history.  Many of us go there to appreciate both.

I'm not sure these are "museum quality" relics?  They are factory-produced machines.  Most of their historic significance is intimately tied to place, this particular amazing place, and would be lost if they were moved.  I feel "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

Only very few get to see this site; sharing it is an act of both generosity and of hope (that no one disturbs it).  Thanks again for sharing these  particularly marvelous sites with all of us, Billerina.  Greatly appreciated.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Lookout Billerina
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PostSat Oct 18, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Rod, I totally agree with you regarding the value of the objects in terms of time and place.

For years I have told family and friends that I love exploring lookouts and mines and other historical sites "for the karma".  Most don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about, although I have said I am thrilled to experience in some small way what those men and women experienced in our beloved mountains.  So many have come before; many sweated, toiled, and died in these places.

I would love it if these relics continue to lie there for many decades to come, but as you know the wet westside climate will ultimately have dominion.  I took at least four times as many images as I uploaded, but those are a good sample.  If they inspire anyone to tackle that hike, or those hikes, my guess is they will earn the karma.  Those who beat their way in there are most likely going to let things lie.

Of the roughly 1100 trips I have made into the mts, that one is without any doubt on my very short list of favorites.  It took us quite a while to finally get there because no one handed us a map or gave us step by step instructions.  My hiking buddy and I really earned that one, and I treasure the memories.  I doubt I will ever go back - not because I can't, but because I love exploring too much, and there is an endless list....
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Stan-D-TectR
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PostSat Oct 18, 2014 10:01 pm 
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RodF wrote:
Fantastic site.  Imagine the effort they made!  (And imagine the sight of that tram running, and the noise that ball mill must've made when breaking rock to dust.)

Any idea how heavy that Ball Mill is? We found out that it is very rare. It looks like we won't make it in this year, but next spring we intend to take the Ball Mill out in it's entirety. We figure a club member can pack out one of the balls each, but the mill portion may take more effort. We've used helicopters before and also just dragged artifacts out with ropes. We'll get it.

The mine area looks higher in elevation, so we'll have to wait until later next summer for a full excavation. I'll post photos.
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Ringangleclaw
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 8:09 am 
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Troll
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Chico
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 9:24 am 
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Hoping you're not serious.

Stan-D-TectR wrote:
Any idea how heavy that Ball Mill is? We found out that it is very rare. It looks like we won't make it in this year, but next spring we intend to take the Ball Mill out in it's entirety. We figure a club member can pack out one of the balls each, but the mill portion may take more effort. We've used helicopters before and also just dragged artifacts out with ropes. We'll get it.


"LEAVE IT WHERE YOU FIND IT" so that others can enjoy it.

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Stan-D-TectR
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 10:24 am 
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Chico wrote:
Hoping you're not serious.

Stan-D-TectR wrote:
Any idea how heavy that Ball Mill is? We found out that it is very rare. It looks like we won't make it in this year, but next spring we intend to take the Ball Mill out in it's entirety. We figure a club member can pack out one of the balls each, but the mill portion may take more effort. We've used helicopters before and also just dragged artifacts out with ropes. We'll get it.


"LEAVE IT WHERE YOU FIND IT" so that others can enjoy it.

Why? It's not private property   confused.gif
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snoqpass
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 11:00 am 
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Because removing artifacts from federal land is illegal
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Lookout Billerina
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 11:41 am 
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The few posts prior to this are what I expected from the dregs of humanity.

Rod, last year I screeched to a halt and drove back to the only "working" tram setup I have ever seen that appears to be very close to what was installed up Salmon Creek.  Here are a few images.



Compare those shots of the 2013 bull wheel to the ones I posted earlier, or this closeup of one of the grippers at the Golden Tunnel:



It looks like the bull wheel at the GT may have been a unique design, or at least different from the one I photographed last year.  Woodhouse goes on at some length about the design details of the GT bull wheel.

Here are some shots of the towers and ore buckets from 2013:



The work that Woodhouse & Company did on their books of Washington mining history is way beyond any words that I could dream up.  They're just a tremendous contribution.  So the trolls and idiots can now scramble up there and take it all away from the rest of us.  It will help, you drooling fools, to hang surveyor's tape every few feet on any routes you cut in.

Phil's work is so great, I wanted to transcribe the GT part here, but of course it is copyrighted.  As in most of Phil's stuff, it makes extremely fascinating reading.  But that is almost inconsequential to actually experiencing the sites.

Rod, since you expressed the interest, I doubt that Phil or the publisher would strongly object to one footnote being reproduced here, perhaps to dissuade the knumbn_ts above from trying to take some things out:

"The equipment included a device called the 'Montgomery Ore Granulator and Pulverizer' manufactured by the A.C.M. Company of Butte, MT.  This machine used three large, 20-inch diameter, 1,200-pound steel balls rolling in a circular trough to crush and grind the ore.  (The standard type of ball mill tumbled iron balls with the ore and water; the stamp mill hammered the ore to powder.)  We have never heard of another one of these devices ever being used - testimony to its inferior performance."

Yes, the Golden Tunnel and its mill site are special places, indeed.  However, others, who gave all of the info on their location in earlier posts, belittled them severely.  Whatever.
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Stan-D-TectR
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 2:10 pm 
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snoqpass wrote:
Because removing artifacts from federal land is illegal

Just talked to my buddy who is an attorney. If it's not clearly posted as such, it's fair game.  wink.gif
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snoqpass
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Stan-D-TectR wrote:
snoqpass wrote:
Because removing artifacts from federal land is illegal

Just talked to my buddy who is an attorney. If it's not clearly posted as such, it's fair game.  wink.gif

Might want to get a new lawyer

The Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979,
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Stan-D-TectR
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 2:51 pm 
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snoqpass wrote:
Stan-D-TectR wrote:
snoqpass wrote:
Because removing artifacts from federal land is illegal

Just talked to my buddy who is an attorney. If it's not clearly posted as such, it's fair game.  wink.gif

Might want to get a new lawyer

The Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979,

So more meaningless laws that are not enforceable? You guys really roll out the welcome wagon to new members  huh.gif

Look, I didn't even know about this place until I saw this thread and the photos.

Don't you want these artifacts to be enjoyed by everyone? Not everyone can get up there. Heck, I don't know if I can.
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snoqpass
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 6:35 pm 
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In my opinion it's worthless industrial junk but I don't write rules
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Ringangleclaw
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Stan-D-TectR wrote:
snoqpass wrote:
Because removing artifacts from federal land is illegal

Just talked to my buddy who is an attorney. If it's not clearly posted as such, it's fair game.  wink.gif

Your buddy the lawyer is an idiot lawyer.  Whether land is posted or not, one does not have carte blanche to haul off private property that is not yours, no matter if the land is federal, state, a mining claim, patterned land or wholly privately held.  And I doubt that any helicopter company would want to jeopardize their FAA license by landing on Federal land where they do not have a commercial permit or by participating in your tomb raid.

I still think you are a troll, and a poor one at that
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Stan-D-TectR
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Ringangleclaw wrote:
Your buddy the lawyer is an idiot lawyer.  Whether land is posted or not, one does not have carte blanche to haul off private property that is not your, no matter if the land is federal, state, a mining claim, patterned land or wholly privately held.  And I doubt that any helicopter company would want to jeopardize their FAA license by landing on Federal land where they do not have a commercial permit or by participating in your tomb raid.

OK, I'm outta here. I've searched the site and it's not very friendly to metal detector folks. shakehead.gif

I did show your post to my buddy and he laughed. He says you're naive. There's no enforcement for stuff like this. So you're on your own, Sheriff Ringworm.

He did relay a warning though - he's been on many trips with the club and says that the member are "well armed", whatever that means. I'm pretty sure some of the young guys are fond of the automatic weapons or what have you - in any event he says if someone encounters the club members working or excavating it's best just to walk away quietly. Don't try to be a hero. His words not mine.
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Chico
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PostSun Oct 19, 2014 9:52 pm 
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CODE OF ETHICS

I WILL respect private property and WILL NOT trespass without the land owners permission.
I WILL NOT destroy property, buildings or what is left of ghost towns and deserted structures
I WILL NOT litter, always pack out what I take in and remove all trash dug in my search.
I WILL leave all gates and other accesses to land as found.
I WILL appreciate and protect our heritage of natural resources, wildlife, and private property.
I WILL use thoughtfulness, consideration and courtesy at all times.
I WILL abide by all laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern my search, or the area I will be in.
I WILL fill all holes, regardless how remote the location, and never dig in a way that will damage, be damaging to, or kill any vegetation.
I WILL report the discovery of items of significant historical value to a local historian or museum in accordance with the latest legislation.
I WILL Be an ambassador for the metal detecting hobby.

Be polite and informative to those who inquire about your hobby - you are the ambassador of a pastime we want to protect and we will be judged by how you act & respond.

Ambassadors! In your dreams.

Automatic weapons. Hmm. Let me guess, a club full of felons who should not be anywere near firearms, let alone automatics. Just wonderful! Yep, real ambassadors of your sport.

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