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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 9:12 am 
Adding to Stefan's point: Wearing a single layer next-to-skin semi-VB while traveling in cold rain/cool rain/wet snow/dry snow/wet brush/cold clear keeps me comfy as heck while the rest of my (upper body) clothes are bone dry in my pack. My single layer hoody N2S semi-VB keeps me warm -- but not too warm -- and comfortable from 10F (zipped up, hood on, while moving) to 55F (venting with zipper down, hood down) and all points in between. Yeah yeah, I know, I'll get a semi-VB post up before the end of the year.

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xrp
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 10:42 am 
Critter wrote:
I'm an individual who prefers to get up close and personal with nature. I love to watch your planet's fury first hand. As a hands on storm watcher, I can assure you this jacket has kept me dry, all day, in severe weather.
I need you to add subtitles when windy conditions drown out your voice, please. Thx!

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Critter
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PostThu Oct 03, 2013 1:10 pm 
In this video I encountered moderate to slightly heavy rain and plenty of wet brush. I had no choice and no option but to drag my jacket through more dense brush and thorny devils club. Of course, my jacket kept me bone dry all day. The guy I was with had a poncho. The long and wide poncho made traveling through the dense brush troublesome. He was soaked when we got to the lake to take a break under the tarp. He didn't even want to put his soaking wet poncho back on, so I gave him a trash bag to make a secondary poncho to go under the wet poncho. The guy never complained but I was glad I wasn't using a poncho.
My rain jacket defeated the poncho and it's ready for it's next challenger.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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DaleW
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PostFri Oct 04, 2013 2:20 pm 
I see that REI has several sizes on sale for $463 and Moosejaw has a couple more at $498--- still about equal to all the rest of my kit in cost. Good rain gear is a blessing in the PNW, but that is a lot of coin! Ponchos are very good for trail use, giving pack cover and emergency shelter in the same package and you can't beat the cost and weight factors. They suck in strong wind and bushwhacking. A belt of light cord with a toggle can tame a poncho quite a bit. Sailors don't really need breathable rain gear, sailing being the art of sitting on a pitching park bench going nowhere slowly at great expense. You might work up a sweat running a big winch in a race, but only for 60 seconds at a time. The idea of a commercial fisherman wearing a $650 rain jacket while working on a steel boat with all kinds of abrading surfaces and buckets of slimy fish guts is laughable.

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Critter
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PostFri Oct 04, 2013 11:02 pm 
Quote:
I see that REI has several sizes on sale for $463 and Moosejaw has a couple more at $498
You can't find this jacket for that cheap anywhere. This is the 2013-2014 Arcteryx Alpha SV. I looked it up, you're looking at last years model. It's 28% less breathable but still the second best jacket in the galaxy. I do agree that ponchos are only good for on trail, in rain where there is no wind present. However, I like to set up my shelter in the rain without taking off my rain gear. Also, I like to get out from under my shelter (bear wire or poop) and stay dry. I beat the poncho and I'm ready for my next challenger.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Oct 07, 2013 10:05 am 
Critter wrote:
It's 28% less breathable. . . .
FTR, Gore claims that its new Pro shell is 10% to 28% more breatheable. See http://www.gearinstitute.com/getschooled/item/gore-tex-launches-new-pro-shell Gore achieved the better breatheability by removing the ultrathin PU layer and moving to a sandwich design with a "mystery layer." This appears to be an Gore's reaction to Neoshell's superior breatheability. A few interesting and revealing comments from that thread:
Quote:
Gore-Tex product specialist Tom Gray says the “mystery layer” designed to increase the laminate's resistance to oils and cracks from washing, but declines to explain how, citing proprietary concerns.
This is an implied admission by Gore that its products are prone to cracking. Many of us already knew that.
Quote:
It’s also the most durable fabric among the several different flavors of Gore-Tex. The material designed to accommodate 200-days of hard use without degrading in performance.
This is another implied acknowledgment that Goretex degrades. IME, it's more like 50 days of hard use before Goretex starts to leak like a screen door.
Critter wrote:
. . . the second best jacket in the galaxy.
You've tried them all for 100+ days each? Of course not. You've got a few days on on Pro shell piece and an obvious bias cuz you spent big $$$$. We all know that Goretex works fine for awhile. Give it time, and to give it a true test don't baby it (as you suggest you might do in previous posts). How many days do you have in Neoshell shells? None, right? Even giving Gore the benefit of the doubt re 10-28% more breatheable than prior Pro shell, Neoshell is considerably more breatheable than that. The yet-to-be-answered question is the durability of the new Pro shell and Neoshell. Notwithstanding the early delam of my Neoshell (I've also had plenty of Gore shells delam early) my bet is on Neoshell. But it's too early to say. I'll give my Neoshell one full year and 80+ days of hard use before I'm prepared to make conclusions re the relative merits of GTX Pro shell vs. Neoshell.

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Critter
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PostMon Oct 07, 2013 4:24 pm 
Big Steve, thank you for your interest. I assure you that I know what I'm talking about. My jacket and I will confidently take on a Neoshell as our next competitor. The Arc'teryx Alpha SV is the best rain shell in the galaxy. Just calm down it may take time to prove you wrong. In the meantime, maybe you could relax. Breathability is not an issue for me. If I hiked with you I might not even break a sweat. I like this waterproof, reliable jacket because it can keep me bone dry while hiking up hill, all day, in hard driving rain. You told me when I was looking for a rain shell that I had unrealistic expectations when I said that's what I was looking for, but I found one that can do it. So, I guess you're not always right. I've never seen someone so against Gore-Tex as Big Steve is. The price of the jacket has nothing to do with it. I just dropped $500 on some Arc'teryx pants. What do you have to say about that? Spending a lot of money does not trick you into thinking you are comfortable in an extreme situation.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Oct 07, 2013 4:42 pm 
Critter wrote:
I assure you that I know what I'm talking about.
More than numerous people with more experience than you?
Critter wrote:
I'll confidently take on a Neoshell as my next competitor.
Wait. What? You compete against items of clothing? dizzy.gif
Critter wrote:
The Arc'teryx Alpha SV is the best rain shell in the galaxy.
According to Critter the Self-proclaimed Expert of the Galaxy, whose sampling pool includes one (1) high quality rain shell, the choice of Vancouver BC spoiled housewife power shopper posers, for a few weeks? lol.gif lol.gif
Critter wrote:
Just calm down it is going to take time to prove you wrong.
So, this thread is about proving me wrong? I'm flattered. ETA:
Critter wrote:
I will switch it up for bushwhacking and save my serious jacket for serious situations.
Wait. You have proclaimed your new $700 poser jacket the Best in the Galaxy but you're going to baby it? lol.gif lol.gif BTW, Sonny, lots of serious routes have bushwhacking approaches.

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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Oct 07, 2013 4:53 pm 
Ah, Critter, you keep editing your posts! Stand still, Sonny. Relax
Critter wrote:
I've never seen someone so against Gore-Tex as Big Steve is.
No, I'm not against GTX. But, using numerous Goretex garments since 1976 has taught me about its limitations.
Critter wrote:
Breathability is not an issue for me.
Oh? Then why didn't you buy a truly waterproof shell for a fraction of the price? And if breatheability is not an issue for you, why do you brag that your $700 poser raincoat is 28% more breatheable than last year's poser raincoat?
Critter wrote:
The price of the jacket has nothing to do with it.
Well, actually, it does, but whether you are aware of that is a different matter.

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Critter
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PostMon Oct 07, 2013 10:50 pm 
The last time I took out my Alpha SV, 'the Ferrari', it felt a little damp and clammy on the inside. It rained steadily all day. Since it's brand new, and since it's the best shell I could have gotten, I know it was my body vapor escaping. I only had on a long sleeve, light weight, polyester base layer but it didn't feel the slightest bit wet. I'm thankful that my jacket is as breathable as it is and I'm very impressed.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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Randito
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PostTue Oct 08, 2013 4:50 am 
With all the hype from Gore and Arc Terex about their gear and the prices they charge and Gore's "Guaranteed to keep you dry" policy it seems like the $705 investment should be the last shell jacket that Critter needs to buy. Then if each time it does start leaking and it is replaced without hassle repeated, the maybe its worth it. Unless it fails unexpectedly in the middle of a trip. Better take a shower in that jacket each time before heading out on trip where your safety depends on it working as advertised.

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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostTue Oct 08, 2013 7:43 am 
Yeah yeah, Critter, we all agree that GTX shells are functionally waterproof for awhile. This too shall pass.
Critter wrote:
Breathability is not an issue for me. * * * I'm thankful that my jacket is as breathable as it is. . .
Der Flipflop dizzy.gif
RandyHiker wrote:
Better take a shower in that jacket each time before heading out on trip. . . .
But a shower test won't tell you much about water pushing through a cracked ePTFE membrane with minimal pressure, e.g., bushwacking approach in the North Cascades, climbing a damp class 3 krummolzed ridge. IME, that's when the failure of Goretex and eVent will first manifest itself.
RandyHiker wrote:
With all the hype from Gore and Arc Terex about their gear and the prices they charge and Gore's "Guaranteed to keep you dry" policy it seems like the $705 investment should be the last shell jacket that Critter needs to buy.
In theory, that's true, although the warranty won't do you much good when the shell fails on day 3 of a 10 day trip. I've gotten several GTX warranty replacement shells and I know people who bought one GTX shell and got a half dozen warranty jackets thereafter. The cost of those warranty replacements is part of the $700 purchase price. ETA: Here is a discussion on summitpost in which numerous experienced mountain travelers -- all liars, of course -- acknowledge the limitations and realities of GTX, countered by GTX koolaid drinkers' pathetic attempts explain via "sweaty knee" theory and other utterly nonsensical propositions. It's both amusing and sad to watch the GTX true believers squirm in their attempts to justify their purchases.

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Critter
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PostTue Oct 08, 2013 8:01 am 
I work around a lot of climbers/hikers and I ask a lot of questions about their gear. That's where I met Old Hand. He is happy with his Arc'teryx after 10 years and he's not even sure what model it is. Another customer is having amazing results with his Arc'teryx Alpha SL. That jacket is 11.3 oz/ $275.00. It's the lightest jacket, most packable shell that Arc'teryx makes. I love how breathable this jacket is. I don't sweat as much as some people so I don't worry too much about breathability, but it's nice to be able to dry my wet clothes, in the rain, under my rain gear, while moving quickly.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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summithound
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summithound
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PostTue Oct 08, 2013 8:05 am 
Critter wrote:
I like this waterproof, reliable jacket because it can keep me bone dry while hiking up hill, all day, in hard driving rain.
Anybody who walks up hill all day will sweat, period. If you aren't sweating then you need to start doing some harder trails.

Pain is just weakness leaving the body.
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Critter
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PostTue Oct 08, 2013 8:08 am 
Quote:
Anybody who walks up hill all day will sweat, period. If you aren't sweating then you need to start doing some harder trails.
I didn't really sweat on this hike and I dried some wet head gear. I don't really sweat even on bushwhack climbs. I pace myself and save my energy for an emergency situation or for 30-40 mile day hikes/climbs. I sweat in the summer when it's super hot and I'm drinking lots of water.

soUthinkUcanCamp
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