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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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seeking hygge
PostMon Jan 27, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Steve wrote:
Most, I believe, of the subarus have CVT now and I'm skeptical about the long term reliability of them.

Upon what do you base your skepticism?  Subie has used Jatco pulley-based CVTs starting with some 2010 models.  Other car manufacturers have used Jatco pulley-based CVTs for longer than that.  There are millions of them out there and AFAIK the failure rate is better than gearbox trannies of the same vintage.  In terms of driveability, the Impreza CVT is a great match for the 2.0L engine, great mountain car.
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Steve
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Past performance of the Jatco CVT is what I base it on. I have read the failure rate for the Jatcos on Nissan to be around 30%. Subaru has their own design, but three years is not a long enough track record to say they are good.

CVT glitches

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Cyclopath
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 2:48 pm 
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HitTheTrail wrote:
We have a well-known member here on NWHikers with a Subaru which has probably logged more off-pavement miles and THs than any in the state (if not country). Each time I have been in the car things seem to be holding up well considering all the punishment it has taken. And I know he has no plans to replace it soon. I wont mention any names but he goes by Wildernessed.

My boss told me she knows which car is mine because it's the one covered in Mt Baker mud.  It's been up and down the Middle Fork Road several times, up to the Spider Meadow TH, North Fork Teanaway and a bunch of side roads like to the Beverly/Bean TH, and many others.  Often faster than it really should be going, with all the potholes.  It's in fantastic shape after 92 K abusive miles (I bought it at 13 K).  Dirty, but holding up well.  Lots of routine maintenance and oil changes.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Steve wrote:
Past performance of the Jatco CVT is what I base it on. *  *  *
CVT glitches

AFAICT, the "glitches" are perceived by customers that are used to gearbox trannies:

Quote:
From what we're understanding, the issue largely relates to customers' unfamiliarity with the non-traditional shift nature of a CVT.

The remedy offered by Jatco is to help educate consumers.  Sounds like a perception problem, not a mechanical one.   Also, the article does not say whether the "glitches" are about the pulley-based CVTs or the Jatco toroidal CVTs that Nissan uses.

Steve wrote:
I have read the failure rate for the Jatcos on Nissan to be around 30%.

Link?  Sure you weren't reading about the Jatco/Nissan toroidal CVTs?  Or maybe Nissan's early pulley-based CVT issues?
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JVesquire
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 3:47 pm 
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I'm looking to buy a car too, since our wagon is crapping out. I researched the Subarus and it seems like they hold their value fairly well, i.e. slightly used is still pricey. Assuming the car is in good condition, I'd like to know what people think a basic Outback wagon is worth with 60 to 80K in mileage, 2009 or later vintage. The KBB values seemed thousands lower than what dealers in our area try to sell them for.
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seattlenativemike
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 4:14 pm 
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I had two imprezas, 2004 and 2005....great cars.  The second one was stolen and never recovered.  The NW is the hottest market in the US for Subarus.  Its not a status car so they go for cheaper in the sun belt.

On another note, Carter Subaru used to give out Legacy GT turbos as loaner cars but too many drivers put regular gas in them and it detonated the motors.

I like Subarus but the current models seem so bloated and bland.
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mike
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 5:46 pm 
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seattlenativemike wrote:
but the current models seem so bloated and bland.

My wife's 2007 Forrester is headed in that direction for sure. 2003, still pretty nice.
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Jeff
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Thinking about buying a used Subaru because new cars depreciate too much is pretty amusing. Unless you are willing to buy one from Florida, the reseale value is extremely high on used ones.

As far as 4 cylinder (non-turbo) Outbacks go...
They claimed to have fixed the head gaskets for 2003, but then those model years started to fail. Then they claimed to fix it in 2005 with the new model, but now those cars are starting to blow head gaskets as well. I wonder if the 2010+ models years will still fail...

Click "back" a few pages in this thread to judge for yourself...
http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/88-head-gasket-issues/18583-hg-failure-log-no-discussion-log-only-36.html

Oh, and the 2005-2006 (and perhaps 2007-2008) issues suffer from extremely poor snow performance (intermittent issue). It's been dubbed ghost walking.

My 2005 Outback costs a lot to maintain and it still breaks all the time. I hate it so much. I don't think I can recommend a single Outback model year within the last decade. Maybe the 2010+ cars, but those are still too new to have sufficent reliability data.

Mileage for mine is 19/21.
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Gil
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 7:40 pm 
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iron: I don't know if you're in a rush to buy, but if not, I can suggest a car broker to find the car you want. We've used him for our five last cars, including a 1999 Forester that I shipped up to my mother in Alaska a few years ago (and still going strong).

You tell him what you want and your budget, and he goes and finds it for you. But just a warning: it might take a while. Our daughter totaled our 2005 Prius last year (just a few months after I paid it off!), so we went looking for another one. He found us a 2007 with less than 100,000 miles in excellent condition inside and out for a great price. He's meticulous about the cars he sells, and each of ours has been in top shape. But it took him two months to find our Prius.

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iron
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getting old
PostMon Jan 27, 2014 8:50 pm 
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thanks for all the input so far. keep it coming.

jeff: regarding used vs new, if you think it's a good idea to pay $28k for a new car, vs. $8k for a used one with some miles, then your math is much different than mine. i will run the car into the ground. i believe repairs, even annual ones, are far cheaper than the premium one pays for something new. example: how many $3000/yr repairs can you make on a car before offsetting the price of a new car? answer: a shitload.

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Magellan
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 9:07 pm 
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New cars are for millionaires.  Anyone who can afford to throw away $3-6k just to be the first one to drive it off the lot is rich.  You may not be able to buy a Subaru for half price when it's six years old, but there are a lot of makes that you can.

ETA:
iron wrote:
how many $3000/yr repairs can you make on a car before offsetting the price of a new car? answer: a shitload.

agree.gif
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 9:22 pm 
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The analysis depends on how much value you assign a new car warranty and recourse under lemon laws.  If you buy a new lemon, your remedy is a new car.  if you buy a certified used lemon, at least the warranty covers the repairs.  But if you by a used lemon, your remedy is nil so you're out the purchase price plus whatever money you pissed away in repairs before you figured out it was a lemon.

New car at end of model year pricing + selling with relatively low miles/repeat actually pencils out close to the used no warranty lemon lottery.  Plus you get to drive a new car for awhile.

Fun thread drift.
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Jeff
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 9:31 pm 
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A corporate discount does help swing the math towards buying new. A car with a salvage title that was totaled due to "very minor damage" certainly swings it towards buying used.

Invoice for a base Outback is under $23k. The $15k difference starts getting a little smaller if you account for a shorter vehicle life and the fact that the most expensive repairs are likely still to come.

If you do go for a used 3rd gen, I can give you some pointers on what to look for once you single out a specific vehicle. Definitely look for external head gasket leaks, oil leaks at the valve covers, torn CV boots (those usually go around 80-100k, so the car you linked to should be fine), blown out suspension bushings. There isn't much of a test for the ghostwalking; it's just luck of the draw. They also drink oil, but you probably know that since you've owned one. Check the dipstick to see if the owner got lazy with it. Don't worry about a little piston slap when you first start it up when cold, but it shouldn't be excessive.

Also, turn on the radio with the rear defrost on and see if you get a surprise.
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JVesquire
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PostMon Jan 27, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Iron, your cost comparison is with a branded title. That's a pretty significant dent in the car's history, so it isn't a reasonable comparison. I used to think new cars were for suckers, but if you're going to keep the car until it craps out, a new car isn't always a bad deal. Certainly safer than a branded title!
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forest gnome
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PostTue Jan 28, 2014 6:00 am 
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Well where is the SLUGMAN?....he owns a subie, with a replaced  used engine that I worked on ...his is still going strong!....

I completly rebuilt his brakes, put 4 new struts into it...tuned up...replaced the alternator....this was when we had a shop-space in everett, we are looking for an other small shop space to work on friends projects... up.gif
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