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forest gnome
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PostFri Jul 12, 2019 8:47 am 
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So who's done it? on an expensive bag or even a cheap one...

overstuffed my western mountain. bag with 5-6 oz of down and added a draft collar..BEST thing ever!!

have been thinking of ordering an "aegis"? down bag off amazon for like 80$? then buying down from the green lake guy who sells it...

"Darwin on the trail" has some great lightweight tips  and gear stuff on you tube!

ALLSO: do you spray the outside of the bag with a light coating of 3-m scotch-guard or perhaps Nix-wax?
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forest gnome
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PostMon Jul 15, 2019 8:00 am 
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so thats 129 people who'v never cut open their bags....personally I would find a cheap synthetic w`horizontal baffles...stuff with 12oz. of down, add draft tube....voila $350 bag!!!
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JonnyQuest
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PostMon Jul 15, 2019 8:29 am 
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Remember there's a sweet spot for down fill pressure.  Adding more down beyond that just adds weight, bulk, and expense without improving warmth.  Reputable bag manufacturers "should" be filling to about that optimum fill pressure.  With most bags now independently rated using a standardized test methodology (formerly EN, now ISO), it behooves the manufactures to optimize pressure for a given temp bag.  Too little down and they don't hit the target temp rating, too much down adds cost without improving temp rating...
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forest gnome
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PostTue Jul 16, 2019 8:33 am 
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interesting...I added about 4 handfuls per baffle..
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JonnyQuest
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PostTue Jul 16, 2019 11:43 am 
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Not saying your efforts didn't provide benefit.  Hence the "should" comment when speaking about bag manufacturers.  It could easily be that your bag was built to hit a temp (or not) yet was not optimized (possibly under filled) for the given baffle heights.  If that's the case, adding down would indeed increase the warmth of the bag.
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Grannyhiker
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PostTue Jul 16, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Considering that Western Mountaineering charges only $32 to add 2 oz. overfill, which, for most DIYers, saves the problem of down floating all over the house, I'd rather let them do it!  Of course that only works if you already have one of their bags!

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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Jul 16, 2019 5:45 pm 
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forest gnome wrote:
have been thinking of ordering an "aegis"? down bag off amazon for like 80$?

This bag?

https://www.amazon.com/AEGISMAX-Urltra-Light-Sleeping-Three-Season-L200cmW86cm/dp/B075N8G9KY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2SWXSNRZWMHYK&keywords=aegismax%2Bul%2Bsleeping%2Bbag&qid=1563323822&s=gateway&sprefix=aegis%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1

IDK -- what about buying and trying it out before fiddling with it?   Isn't China the main producer of goose down anyway ?   What makes you think the down from "a guy on green lake" is higher quality?

it would be useful to know whether the shell fabric is actually downproof before stuffing a bunch of expensive replacement down...

Or you could go to Seattle Fabrics and just buy some actual downproof fabric and a pattern and sew from scratch...   I mean you are going to restitching the bag anyway -- so you must have a sewing machine right?
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forest gnome
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PostWed Jul 17, 2019 8:50 am 
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ya I think that's the bag... it didn't look to warm but Darwin On the trail gave it a good review- I am sure overstuffing that bag would be good...for those on a budget...
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JonnyQuest
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PostWed Jul 17, 2019 11:21 am 
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Grannyhiker wrote:
Considering that Western Mountaineering charges only $32 to add 2 oz. overfill, which, for most DIYers, saves the problem of down floating all over the house, I'd rather let them do it!  Of course that only works if you already have one of their bags!

The $32 is the starting price point, and is the price to overfill the ExtremeLite" series starting with the MegaLite.  Pricing ramps up from there for the colder weather bags, toping out at $78.  Using the MegaLite as an example, you'd get more bang for your buck by purchasing the TerraLite model where for $25 you get an additional 6oz of down fill.

Also, I'm pretty sure that overfill option is for bags being built to order, and not for modifying an already-owned bag.

Again, I'd hedge my bets that reputable vendors like WM optimize fill pressure in their bags.  By offering overfill they are either...
1:  Indirectly admitting that their stock fill schedules are not optimized for the bag design (baffle chamber volume), or...
2:  Giving the customer what they want, for a price, even if there's limited or no benefit.

I'm guessing the latter  smile.gif
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InFlight
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PostWed Jul 17, 2019 10:12 pm 
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Insulation type:800 Fill Power95/5White Goose Down
Zip options:Regular-left;Large-Right
Fill weights (grams):Regular-230g;Large-258g
Bag weights (grams):Regular-408g;Large-528g

At that price point it certainly isnt all 800 Fill Goose Down.  The 95/5 is an odd Qualifier.  Makes me wonder if its 95% Goose Feathers and 5% Goose Down.

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I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...  ― Henry David Thoreau
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JonnyQuest
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PostThu Jul 18, 2019 1:10 pm 
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While this thread prompted me to share my thoughts / hypothesis on overfill, it also spurred me into further research.  Many sites speak to it, but the best (and seemingly honest) assessment I found was from Nunatak.  While it does sound like "overfilling" does little to improve the measured temp rating for bags that are optimized with the original fill schedule, it does provide a couple of advantages.  One is that it extends the life of the loft (and performance) between launderings - probably a worthy consideration for through hikers.  The other is that the additional down / fill pressure increases stabilization of the down within the baffled chambers.  Especially for active sleepers that thrash around, this reduces the chances of creating cold spots.
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SSGHawk
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PostMon Aug 26, 2019 4:54 am 
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Hello everyone.
I admit that I have not done any significant searching in this forums' historical posts. I  have done many many hours of Google searching in the last month for answers to these questions and only found you guys just by dumb luck this afternoon.

I purchased a different AEGISMAX sleeping bag that  I would  like any thoughts you folks have about turning it into an optimized quilt. All down tubes/baffles run the full length of the bag. I opened up and removed down from one long baffle/tube, found zero feathers, clean and big individual large down floating around the room since I forgot to turn off the AC. The zipper is very nice #3 which does not tend to snag.  This is my first ever such project.

No hood- but a quality neck area string closer. Since I will remove between 2 and 4 tubes of down/material  from underneath me plus taper the bag more and remove much of the zipper, I think I have a good shot at getting below 16 ounces for the modified bag which weighed approx 19.5 oz.when received.

Cons are wanting a good draft collar, there are no zipper draft tubes, not sure how the neck cord arrangement will flatten the down on shoulders causing cold spots and all sewing is through all material also causing cold spots,

My immediate questions concern the Enlighten Equipment pad system quilt pad straps. Specifically how much of the edge of the quilt needs to be under you body if the temps crash unexpectedly? What are pros and cons of EE's quilt pad straps and other approaches?

Hopefully you'll'(I'm from Texas) can also provide some helpful suggestions for:
several types of neck draft collars designs,
what can be done to easily block zipper leaks such as putting the zipper beneath me,
several foot box design alternatives,
suggestions to prevent the flattening of the shoulder down as result of tightening the neck draft collar and
something you quilt folks probably have figured out is achieving variable girth since foot box needs to be much smaller and as a side sleeper my folded knees probably require a wider girth then my chest with folded arms and what feasibly can be done to minimize cold spot caused by straight sewing?
Thanks for your time and I am very glad to have found this Forum.

Paul




AGISMAX Outdoor Ultra Light Goose Down Compactable Sleeping Bag, 78 x 31 - Inch

Product description
Item:E series
Please know in advance:Manual measurement error 2~5cm.
Temperature rating(EN 13537):
Comfort:+11 C/52 F
Lower Limit:+6 C/43 F
Extreme:-9 C/15 F
Season rating:Indoor/Summer/Spring/Autumn
Insulation type:800 Fill Power 95/5White Goose Down
Zip options:Right
Fill weights (grams):308g
Bag weights (grams):584g
Sleeping bag shape:Rectangular
Fill ratio (top/bottom):50/50
Baffle design:sewn through lateral baffles
Shell design:Sewn-through
Outer shell fabric:iFlex 20D Nylon with DWR,high density down proof weave
Inner fabric:iFlex 20D Nylon with skin & soft,high density down proof weave
Zip Draft Tube:No
Neck Draft Tube:No
Security Pocket:No
Zip:YKK 3#ZIP
Zip together:No
Fabric size(Inner):200cmX82cm/79inX32in
Shrink min size:195cm X 74cm/77in X 29in
Recommended Height for User:200cm/79in
Chest Circumference:163cm/64in
Hip Circumference:152cm/59in
Foot Circumference:120cm/47in



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZKAC25/?coliid=I1ONQRQ4Z6RUIU&colid=18ZY1HPWPITXY&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

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SSGHawk
Bless all who voluntarily go into harm's way on our behalf each day, whether they wear Blue, Red or Camo, and also bless those who wait for their return not knowing if.....
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SSGHawk
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PostMon Sep 02, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Forest,
"so thats 129 people who'v never cut open their bags....personally I would find a cheap synthetic w`horizontal baffles...stuff with 12oz. of down, add draft tube....voila $350 bag!!!

Sad, but true. Same thing happens at the Back Packing Light (BPL) Forum but there you must be a paying member to post.

As per my post above, I am trying your idea. I basically am turning a cheap 800 down rectangular bag into a quilt that will be fixed to a 20" x 60" MassDrop insulated KLYMIT pad.

As this will be my first MYOG experience, I fully understand that I probably could just buy the final product but what fun is that?

I was able to remove the down from two of the full length tubes= 44 grams or 1.5 oz. That now excess down allows me to increase the down in the remaining 12 tubes by 16%. OR +25% increased fill if I only fill the top center 8 tubes. I maybe able to empty a 3rd tube of down but will wait on that until I am certain that I want 4" less girth.

A couple modifications I plan to make and would very much appreciate any suggestions or war stories if you know of a better approach:

In one of the Forums I read about making a sleeve around the foot box where you can slip your sit pad into. I plan to do that and improve the cheap envelope sleeping bag bottom by adding a circle bottom probably out of 2 layers of 3.6 oz/yd APEX @ .9 inch thickness each. and a provision to be able to slip in a different piece of slip pad over that circle while I am sewing.
I think who ever thought about that putting your closed cell sit pad over 12-18" bottom was a genius. As long as I water proof the circle and also a few inches up the bag/quilt when (not if) my feet touch not only the inner net but also the inside of  my single layer tents hopefully no or much less soak thru. 

As this bag has no baffles and is sewn thru, to minimize the cold spots, I bought a 30" x 60" piece of 40 gram 3M Thinsulate (about $10+frt). I have some lite weight, appropriate type material to cover the Thinsulate sewn (or probably Velcro or bungee corded) around the edges of the top of the bag/quilt. I estimate this will add 5-6 oz in weigh, and maybe more if I cover the Thinsulate on both sides which makes sense for the 2 or 3 oz it might add. I may or may not Nikwax the top of this top blanket.  I probably will add a collar to both the head and foot end of the top blanket similar to a hammock under quilt since it would be easy to do as I go rather than having a do-over.

This Thinsulate exercise might just be putting lipstick on a pig but it will be an interesting experiment, as is the entire project.

You mentioned adding a draft collar to your WM bag. Can you please give me some details about how you did that?

Regards,
Paul

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SSGHawk
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SSGHawk
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PostMon Sep 09, 2019 6:21 pm 
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Update
I installed a shade tree pad/quilt retention system using 1/8th" bungee cord and tighten the quit to the point that I can toss and turn (flip flopping side sleeper) and still have room for a puffy of Temp. go North. I gave it a test sleep last night and all was well even though  I was sleeping on my 22 or 23"KLYMIT PAD where this frankenquilt is planned for the Mass Drop 20"wide klymit pad.

I already have emptied the down out of two of the original full length 14 down tubs. Each down tube has proven to include 22 grams of pretty nice down. Last night I proved that I can empty the down out of two more down tubes and still leave a good pad to quill seal. (4x22g)/(10x22g) means that I can over-stuff the remaining tubes each by 40% with the down that I removed from the sleeping on/crushing bottom down tubes.

This cheap china "envelope" sleeping bag has 14 sewn through 4" WIDE down tubes, meaning likely cold spots at the sewn through. The tubes allow maximum loft of 1.5 to 2" I will have 22 gram x 4=88 grams(3.1 ounces)from the bottom now empty tubes.
I am going to try seam ripping the sown through seam between 2 of the 4" tubes wide tubes making an 8" wide tube from my neck down to mid thigh and see how much additional down will be required to fill two 4" tubes vs one 8 " wide tube. I already have a mess free method  of removing the down and I think that 2" x 8" opening to replace the down should be fairly easy.

Some one mentioned that 8 inch wide tubes might be prone to unpleasant t down migration. If testing proves that to be the case, I think I can hot-glue some light weight baffles were the stitching originally was.
Time do some more night timr testing. ALL COMMENTS, SUGGESTION AND RELEVANT LESSONS LEARNED GRATEFULLY APPRECIATED.
Paul

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SSGHawk
Bless all who voluntarily go into harm's way on our behalf each day, whether they wear Blue, Red or Camo, and also bless those who wait for their return not knowing if.....
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forest gnome
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PostTue Sep 10, 2019 8:43 am 
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haven't gotten back to ya-sorry- I added a draft tube for my zipper...overstuffing did add temp protection, but not as much as hoped, guess the sew-thru baffles have to do with that,

anyway I slept with a rock from the fire last time...may hav to take a kids synthetic bag this time for liner..extra pound but nice...

wrapping the rock in foil then a t-shirt kept me toasty for 5-6 hrs... agree.gif
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