Forum Index > Trip Reports > Chain and Doelle Lakes - New kybos!
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Mikkman
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 8:09 pm 
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August 23-25:

Eager Scouts at the trail head.
Eager Scouts at the trail head.

Two Boy Scouts from Troop 327 in Mill Creek, Augie and Noah, led a group of 7 other Scouts and 4 adults on a 10.5 mile trek up to Chain and Doelle Lakes to replace the decrepit and 'full to the brim' pit toilets a.k.a. kybos. We started on the Icicle Creek trail at about 9:30 AM Friday morning, August 23rd. Our fledgling Eagle Scouts each had prefabricated their projects the weekend before then disassembled them into panels. The panels were bound to external pack frames with a combinations of rope, bungee cords, cellophane, and Gorilla duct tape.

The Build.
The Build.
Kybo packs - Noah left, Augie right
Kybo packs - Noah left, Augie right

The trail was in excellent condition, however, there was one minor incident when my son Augie had a rock in a dry stream bed roll under his foot and preceded to conk himself in the head with a shovel handle.

Head wounds like to bleed!
Head wounds like to bleed!

At the junction with trail1569 to Chain and Doelle Lakes the trail gets ruthlessly steep. As each Scout had to carry extra weight due to carrying the personal gear for the kybo packers plus the tools needed for the install  the steep grade took its toll a bit on the young men and for once they didn't beat us old farts up the mountain!
The Scouts with the heaviest packs straggled into camp at Chain Lakes at about 6pm. We feasted on a huge pot of cheddar broccoli soup loaded with ham and wiped are bowls clean with focaccia bread.

Finally there with the Chain Lakes Kybo!
Finally there with the Chain Lakes Kybo!
Adult camp.
Adult camp.
Alpine glow.
Alpine glow.

Saturday morning after a hearty breakfast burrito of egg, sausage w/taco seasoning, peppers, onions, sour cream, and salsa we split into two groups. Noah led one group on the short 1 mile+ hike up over the Bull Tooths ridge to Doelle Lakes while Augie's grouped remained at Chain Lakes.

Doelle install:

Doelle from the ridge.
Doelle from the ridge.
Dig a deep hole.
Dig a deep hole.
Assemble the kybo.
Assemble the kybo.
Check the hole depth.
Check the hole depth.
Pride of completion.
Pride of completion.
The best seat in the house!
The best seat in the house!

Chain Lakes install:

Dig the hole
Dig the hole
Assemble the kybo.
Assemble the kybo.
Check the hole depth.
Check the hole depth.
admire your work.
admire your work.
A nice view from the throne is a bonus!
A nice view from the throne is a bonus!
The view when seated.
The view when seated.

Vast amounts of spaghetti and meatballs were consumed for dinner. We left camp Sunday morning at about 7:30 and arrived back at the trailhead around 1:00pm. Everyone jumped into the Wenatchee River for quick and reviving rinse back in Leavenworth, then Noah and Augie treated the whole gang to burgers, fries, and shakes at the Heidelburger .

Heckuva trip and two great projects for the backpacking community.

P.S. The toilet seats have no sharp edges and are well sanded down with 220 grit, there will be no splinters with these kybos!
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mgd
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 8:12 pm 
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A Charmin report to be sure! up.gif  up.gif  up.gif

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Hark how the sailor's cry
Joyously echoes nigh
Santa Lucia, Santa Lucia
!!
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Sadie's Driver
Sadie's Driver



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Sadie's Driver
PostTue Oct 01, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Wow!  Thank you for lugging that "kybo" all the way up that nasty trail!  Very nice.  The pics are - ummm- quite descriptive . . .  lol.gif  winksmile.gif

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Four-paw buddy lets me tag along!
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Jetlag
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Thanks for the public service . . . and good training of able young people!
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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Thanks for the public service. Better for the boys to be installing crappers in the high country than hanging out on the streets! Was this an Eagle project?
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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Way to go guys!  Nice work.

Is that lumber pressure treated?  If not I dont see it holding up to he weather long.   up.gif

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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Mikkman
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Yes sir! Two Eagle projects in fact.
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Mikkman
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 10:35 pm 
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No. The Scouts worked with the Wenatchee River Ranger District out of Leavenworth. USFS doesn't allow PT wood. It was constructed of all cedar per the USFS specifications. According to the Rangers these kybos usually only last 3-5 years.

What inspired my son to do this is all of the kybos we have seen on our many treks that are either full, falling apart, or both. We have observed that the structural failures are typically due to the seats busting in, bottom runners rotting away, and failures in the internal framing.

Hopefully these kybos will last a little longer than most. The bottom runners are 4X4, past designs used 2x4s.  We also beefed up the standard design  in other areas to make the assembly more rigid, specifically the framing connections and the support of the seat itself. The front side vertical framing members are actually mortised into the 4x4 runners and a diagonal brace is provided. The old design had you toenail the rear vertical member, instead, we cut the 4X4 an 1 1/2" short so we could fasten the 2x4 verticals more solidly to the end of the runners with several 3" wood screws.  All framing joints were glued and screwed. The siding is tongue and groove cedar. Wood glue was used when piecing together the T&G panels where practical to further strengthen the design, especially the seat!

Probably a little more detail than you wanted, but we hope these hold up better than most. I plan on providing the Rangers we worked with detailed plans of the details we incorporated.
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hikermike
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Properly ventilated, wood can last 100+ years without being pressure treated.  Seems to me cedar should last longer than 3-5, what type of cedar are they requiring.  Whats the matter with using redwood?.  I think part of the "ventillation" problem is time spent under the snow so if placement could be arranged for an area with less snow...such as wind exposed...
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Magellan
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Very cool project.  up.gif  Thanks for the report.  Did you fab the whole thing yourself, follow some blueprints, or just upgrade a kit?
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Mikkman
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PostTue Oct 01, 2013 11:30 pm 
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The kybos are well ventilated.
I was surprised when the Ranger said 3-5 years too.  Probably mostly due to being buried under the weight of 20 feet of snow half the year!
Siting them in a high country location where they wouldn't get buried under many feet of snow would be difficult at best, especially if they are to be located where most users can reasonably access them, i.e. near a campsite. You also have to consider potential avalanches taking them out, and placing them where you can actually dig down without running into solid rock, plus a little consideration for user privacy isn't bad either.  When you're in the field trying to locate them its not easy to find an ideal spot when you consider all the factors.

The upshot of the experience, I think some of the boys that helped may want to replicate the feat when its time for their Eagle project. Troop 327 might be doing this every summer.
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SMPaul
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PostWed Oct 02, 2013 10:03 am 
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A very worthy Eagle project!!  Congratulations to the two Eagles candidates, and thank you!!  YIS
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Mikkman
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PostWed Oct 02, 2013 3:02 pm 
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The USFS had some sketches and rough plans to follow, however, there were some changes that were requested but not detailed:
1. the 4x4 'runners' at the base of each side, previously they were 2x4
2. the original design called for a combination of 1x6 T&G and 1x4 T&G on various portions wrapping the framing. The USFS requested that only 1X4 be used. This revision required to slightly modify some of the overall dimensions.

In essence, we ended up creating some modified drawings/sketches to work with the revisions. As stated in a previous comment response we also made some internal framing connection improvements as well.
No kit of parts was provided. As part of the project the Scouts needed to secure ALL funds and/or material donations to procure everything the project - this includes wood, hardware, fuel, food, etc.

My role was a technical adviser mostly concentrating on helping them with the carpentry details, supplying the tools needed for fabrication, and of course instructing/supervising the young men on the safe operation of the tools involved.

The Scouts managed these projects themselves from start to finish. Of course, they are just boys and did need some prodding and adult guidance from time-to-time, but overall each Eagle candidate took full ownership of their respective project and did a heckuva job!
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wolffie
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PostThu Oct 03, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Nice to see that somebody gives a sh!t.  Thanks.  It's probably important for sanitation and water quality in a heavily-used place like that.
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forest gnome
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PostThu Oct 03, 2013 8:17 pm 
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well wolfie if u go there you will give a sh** tooo.. dance.gif oops couldn't resiiste thatie....you walked into it.... clown.gif
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Forum Index > Trip Reports > Chain and Doelle Lakes - New kybos!
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