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Schenk
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PostWed Apr 16, 2014 1:19 pm 
There are already a slew of radio and microwave signals flying around our heads at all times, everywhere. As long as this doesn't lead to something like "bear-proof recharging stations" that are a visible blight I don't care.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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seawallrunner
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PostWed Apr 16, 2014 1:20 pm 
Up here, the City of Vancouver is thinking about introducing wifi in all of its parks and beaches. Oh yay. dizzy.gif When I go to the wilderness (or even in semi-wilderness in Pacific Spirit or Stanley Park) I like to be away from technology. Sure I'll snap a photo here and there and upload once I am home, but I do not need to be au courant about all the news and shenanigans happening on my twitter, facebook or NWH account.

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tigermn
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PostWed Apr 16, 2014 1:54 pm 
hiker1 wrote:
Might as well throw out the wilderness act then.
Apples and Oranges: Whether somebody can use the internet in the backcountry is up to them and isn't going to hurt me or anyone else so to try and use the government to regulate this just seems silly. Why not regulate booze in the backcountry. Drunk people camping can be far more obnoxious. I still say it is fine as it is. If somebody is going to come bulldoze the forest, entirely different matter.

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cairn builder
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PostWed Apr 16, 2014 9:55 pm 
puzzlr wrote:
I bet the reckless-and-didn't-prepare accident rate goes up when people know they can call for help anywhere.
I really doubt it. Very few people will do something they think has a good chance of breaking their leg just because they can email for help. (If they don't perceive a risk of injury they wouldn't have hesitated before so that's moot.) Pain is a very good deterrent, especially in a roadless wilderness where it will be a long time before anybody can help relieve the pain.

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cairn builder
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PostWed Apr 16, 2014 10:03 pm 
It's kind of like taking a special meal for the first night of a long hike. It can be nice but that stuff is heavy and you just can't do it for every night. Well, I can bring my phone and surf the net but that drains the battery and I just can't spend the whole trip as a thumb zombie. (Mind you I don't use my phone at all but that's a personal decision.) This thread brings up a good point. People are rightly saying you choose whether to go online in the Paysaten, but you make the same choice when you're at home, too. You're allowed to turn the computer off and go for a walk. I like to wander around and watch the season unfold in peoples' gardens, it's better than Facebook.

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tigermn
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PostThu Apr 17, 2014 8:31 am 
cairn builder wrote:
This thread brings up a good point. People are rightly saying you choose whether to go online in the Paysaten, but you make the same choice when you're at home, too. You're allowed to turn the computer off and go for a walk. I like to wander around and watch the season unfold in peoples' gardens, it's better than Facebook.
So true. Neighborhood walks can be so underrated, especially watching the flowers start coming in, or in fall the various ornamental trees turning all kinds of colors. However doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. I choose to do both (web and nature, not usually at the same time but hey...).

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Ski
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PostThu Apr 17, 2014 1:02 pm 
It should be left up to the individual whether or not to "log on" when in wilderness. There will always be those who ask for ketchup while dining at Ruths Chris Steak House. But somebody really needs to come up with a way to disable all cellular phones on all major highways, arterials, and supermarket check-out aisles.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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tigermn
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PostThu Apr 17, 2014 1:55 pm 
Ski wrote:
It should be left up to the individual whether or not to "log on" when in wilderness. There will always be those who ask for ketchup while dining at Ruths Chris Steak House. But somebody really needs to come up with a way to disable all cellular phones on all major highways, arterials, and supermarket check-out aisles.
If only portable cell phone jammers had more range... I.E. I don't think they would disable the one in the car alongside on the freeway.

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sarbar
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PostThu Apr 17, 2014 8:48 pm 
I hear you can make a sweet tin foil hat to stop the waves. peace.gif

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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Riverside Laker
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PostThu Apr 17, 2014 9:23 pm 
We need an app for NWhikers that tells where we are, and has buttons for cairns and available campsites and bugs (not computer bugs, but butterflies, ladybugs, horse flies, and mosquitoes).

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hiker1
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PostSun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 pm 
As I quoted before from the Wilderness Act:
Quote:
A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.
"untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain" can be interpreted as forbidding anything created by, and remaining in, the wilderness by people. In the current case, Google's proposed drones to increase internet access at ground level. An amendment to the Act to forbid the drones and anything similar from flying over federal wilderness, or to have the drones turn off their broadcasts and hi-res cameras when over wilderness, would likely be possible. Other than an amendment, ask whatever government departments enforce the wilderness act to ban low level drones like Google's. I understand some people here may be employed by Google and other companies interested in increasing internet access, and feel that they have to "toe the party line". Although boot up is the exception. Others may be like the millions of people now unable to think without constant internet access.

falling leaves / hide the path / so quietly ~John Bailey, "Autumn," a haiku year, 2001, as posted on oldgreypoet.com
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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Apr 27, 2014 9:46 pm 
The wilderness has been infiltrated by shortwave radio since the 1920's (well before the wilderness act). AM broadcast radio is also available in most wilderness areas with TV on the peaks. GPS and sattelite phone signals are everywhere. There is a constant haze of rf radiation everywhere we just cannot see it.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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touron
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PostSun Apr 27, 2014 9:56 pm 
A tinfoil hat will only protect the top part of your brain. I always carry two emergency space blankets in case I want to protect myself from radio waves. Yes, I end up looking like C-3PO, but no radio waves or light waves get through. Sound waves do get through though, so even though I can filter out everything from KVI to KNDD, I can still hear passersby talk about their day at the office while on the trail.

Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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hiker1
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PostSun Apr 27, 2014 9:57 pm 
Yes, MC. But Google is proposing to increase this, together with hi-res photography, to a level so high that it will be like downtown Seattle. The point is that normal internet access is currently unavailable in most federal wilderness. And that's one reason it still is wilderness.

falling leaves / hide the path / so quietly ~John Bailey, "Autumn," a haiku year, 2001, as posted on oldgreypoet.com
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seawallrunner
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seawallrunner
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PostSun Apr 27, 2014 10:01 pm 
hiker1 wrote:
Yes, MC. But Google is proposing to increase this, together with hi-res photography, to a level so high that it will be like downtown Seattle. The point is that normal internet access is currently unavailable in most federal wilderness. And that's one reason it still is wilderness.
That would be so sad. Something would be lost - the thrill of the mystery, the magic of discovery, the satisfaction of surprise. Part of the pleasure of hiking, for me, is not knowing what's around that next bend, or what's over that ridge. Having the ability to see it all in high-res on Google Earth before even setting foot on the trail is, well, anticlimactic in a way.

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