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Ski
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PostFri May 09, 2014 11:41 pm 
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as an afterthought:

I have to wonder about that quote above from Marshall when I am reminded of the 1966 Shaube letter to Supt. Gabe in which he states:

"Hee Hee and Hee Haw Creeks are named on the maps today in the wrong sequence. Hee Hee Creek heads out of Beauty Lake, but when a government surveyor, a Mr. Johnson, took a crew up the Queets, establishing bench marks along the Queets, and tying into the Elwah, in the 1930’s, he named the larger of the two unnamed creeks between Alta and Hee Hee Creeks, as Hee Haw Creek, and when the 1942 Forest
Service Map came out it had them named in the wrong sequence, and they show that way in your Olympics, in relief, map. I know, perhaps, it doesn’t matter too much but I always did like to have matters straight, especially so in the old Queets, where I spent the happiest and the best years of my life. They were not always easy years, but they were good ones. Forest Service work was not work to me, I loved it, on maintenance or on trail building – I always tried to do the best that I could with what money was available."

(Shaube 1966)

(the USGS 7.5 topos are Bob Creek and Kimta Peak.)

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RodF
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PostSat May 10, 2014 7:33 am 
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re: Ski's question about trails in the Killea vicinity, Sollecks River, etc...
I've concentrated on listing only those trails that went places that are no longer accessible, ignoring many dozens of miles of trails on which roads were built, and trails which were rendered obsolete by road access.

The Park's original management plan promised a growing network of recreational trails.  I'm sure they were fully aware of the famous "Cleator Plan" for a couple hundred miles of additional high alpine trails in the Olympics.

What occurred was quite the opposite - the loss of almost a third of the foot trails and half the stock trails in Olympic NP, as well as a long list of other recreational facilities.

The question today is whether the public wants to continue to lose more trails in the current Wilderness Stewardship Plan.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Ski
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PostSat May 10, 2014 11:39 am 
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I didn't expect you to include those in any "inventory", Rod. They just made me curious as I've never seen them on any maps- I've only read about the trail being on the north bank from early narratives. Don't know why I haven't seen that map before.
So, based on your numbers, what do you come up with for a total of abandoned trail miles?

Something I wonder about is the number of trail miles that have been designated "way trails" which apparently are still included in the trail inventory. (i.e., Upper Crossing, Lower Crossing)
My understanding is that they believe these are "user maintained" trails "because people use them." (pers. comm. Miller)

(and keep in mind I've got a whole different can of worms opened up here too... seems like the more we dig the more stuff comes out of the woodwork.) wink.gif

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RodF
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PostSun May 11, 2014 1:14 am 
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Ski wrote:
Something I wonder about is the number of trail miles that have been designated "way trails" which apparently are still included in the trail inventory. (i.e., Upper Crossing, Lower Crossing)

If I'm reading the Alt A trail classification map right (doubtful, as they are barely discernable), I  believe Lower Crossing is currrently designated "Foot trail" and Upper Crossing as "Primitive trail", not as "Way trail".  In Alt D, Lower Crossing is shown as zone 3 "secondary foot trail" and Upper Crossing as zone 4 "primitive foot trail".  That means they may be maintained.

Klootchman Rock is an abandoned trail, currently (Alt A) "way trail".  In Alt D, it would remain zone 5 "way trail" which will not be maintained.

The "way trail" (zone 5) table says "Appropriate facilities: No facilities or maintained trails".  It is a mix of abandoned built trails and cross-country routes, some well-established and some virtually nonexistent.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostSun May 11, 2014 10:18 am 
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so.... am I correct in assuming that when they included decades-ago abandoned trails (Kloochman Rock via Coal Creek) on the "Current Trail Classes" (Alternative A?) map, they also included those trail miles (3.4 miles) as part of the current trail inventory?

looking at the "Current Trail Classes" map, it appears they're calling Upper Crossing "primitive", but I can't make out what that letter is on the Lower Crossing trail.
we're not talking about a lot of mileage here, but if they're including those trail miles (Upper and Lower Crossing) in their trail miles inventory number, it seems misleading at best. or do they make any distinction in the trail miles inventory between miles of maintained trails and miles of non-maintained trails?

reason I'm asking is: when I calculated the numbers from the 2006 GMP, their "611" number was for maintained trails. (37% reduction in trail miles since 1935)

so now I'm wondering if either the 2006 "611" figure or their more recent "570" number are accurate.

because if in fact they have included those trails (and others in the same condition) in that "570" number, the actual net reduction number may be greater than I previously calculated. (570 = 41.6% net reduction in trail miles since 1935)

so what did you come up with for a total of abandoned trail miles?

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RodF
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PostSun May 11, 2014 12:11 pm 
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The only way I can come up with 600+ miles of Wilderness trails is to include all the trails depicted in the current Alt. A trail classifications map posted on PEPC,
including dozens of miles of trails which not have been maintained recently.  (I get 629 miles for the total length of the trails, which includes their non-Wilderness trailhead mileage; 611 miles within Wilderness sounds right.)

Where does the 570 mile number come from?

ski wrote:
so what did you come up with for a total of abandoned trail miles?

See the first posting; it is a spreadsheet with a total (which may change as the list is updated to be more complete).

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostSun May 11, 2014 7:58 pm 
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RodF wrote:
Where does the 570 mile number come from?

> Christina Miller. was in one of the WSP documents somewhere.

962 - 230.5 = 731.5 miles

the 962 number is from the ONP GMP of 2006, as is the 611 number.
so...  I dunno what to make of it.
maybe they're calculating "wilderness" trails seperately from "non wilderness" trails?

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostMon May 12, 2014 3:17 pm 
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RodF wrote:
Where does the 570 mile number come from?

In ONP's WSP Preliminary Alternative Management Strategies March 2014 comparison table, under “Alternative A” in the “Hiking Trails/Access” row on page 10, ONP states:  "Under the no-action alternative, there would continue to be about 570 miles of maintained trails in the wilderness and about 40 miles of beach travelways."  Click here, then scroll down and click on "ONP_WSP_Draft_Zones_FULL_ TABLE.pdf" to see the full table comparing the options.  The 570 mile figure is on page 10 of the full table document.
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PostMon May 12, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Olympic National Park
General Management Plan
Summary Presentation
Chapter 3, Park Resources, page 116
"There are approximately 611 miles of maintained trail within the wilderness.  There are approximately 767 trail bridges, including puncheon bridges and 12 miles of boardwalk and/or puncheon.  Several other structures are maintained in the wilderness, primarily along trail corridors, including six ranger stations, several ranger station tents, historic shelters, numerous privies, “bear wires” for safe storage of food away from wildlife , and other administrative and emergency facilities such as radio repeaters and temporary research equipment. More than 1,300 campsites are scattered throughout the wilderness."

Alternative A is continuation of the 1980 Backcountry Management Plan.  It's Appendix lists all maintained trails.


The following trails listed above are no longer maintained: Mount Lincoln, Lake Success, Tshletshy, Sams River, Ludden Peak, Mount Tom Creek, Queets Big Fir, High Divide south of Cat Basin, LaCrosse/Dee Lake, perhaps Eagle Lakes way trail (on Aurora Ridge).  On some other trails, the length maintained may have been reduced (Cascade Rock, Griff Creek, Lillian River, etc.).

The 1992 Backcountry Management Plan Addendum page 7 cites "586 mile maintained trail system".


Alternative A is these two documents.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostMon May 12, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Hesman wrote:
RodF wrote:
upper Lillian River; 4.7; T32,W30,O40,O41,M44,O48,P56
Lake Lillian; 7; OMR

So am I correct to assume that these two trails met at one time in the past? That would have made for an interesting hike if one had two vehicles, starting on the Elwha and ending at Obstruction Point or visa versa.

No, the trails didn't join, but yes, this hike has been done, both ways.

The Lillian River Trail ran 4.7 miles up, until the valley floor opened up a mile above the confluence of the "east and west forks" at 3200 ft elevation.  Cross-country travel could then continue almost 4 miles up the west fork to Lake Lillian.

Lake Lillian Trail begins at Gladys Lake, switchbacks over Low Pass (south of Moose Peak), drops into the upper Lillian valley well above the Lillian River trail.  It's now hard to follow as it begins climbing around the northeast buttress of McCartney Peak, where two deep ravines have cut the trail making it impassible.  The route is a barely visible line across the north face of McCartney Peak, making a steady climbing traverse into Lillian Basin, but the tread has been wiped off the mountainside by decades of snows (just as Cameron Pass would be if it weren't maintained).  The trail is very apparent and easily followed from Lake Lillian south almost to Cameron Pass, where it fades into meadows of heather.  It's a delightful route.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostThu Jan 24, 2019 6:19 pm 
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Well, I know this is an old thread, but I can't help but follow up on that mention of an abandoned "Bunch Lake Trail". I have reached the lake from the W. Fork Humptulips side, but I've never attempted it from the Quinault side. I'll surely never try the Bunch Canyon route after reading trip reports about it, but I'm very curious as to where a historic trail to the lake might have been. If I had any clue, I'd probably be compelled to go take a look. I'll dig around some more for old maps of the Lake Quinault area...
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ranger rock
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PostThu Jan 24, 2019 9:50 pm 
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Thanks for the list.

I still wish I knew why they abandoned the uphill section of 4 stream trail that looks like it is headed for Snow Lake.  Perhaps the forest service road being built up above was the reason they stopped building so abruptly.
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PostSun Jan 27, 2019 8:21 am 
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Jones27 wrote:
Well, I know this is an old thread, but I can't help but follow up on that mention of an abandoned "Bunch Lake Trail". I have reached the lake from the W. Fork Humptulips side, but I've never attempted it from the Quinault side. I'll surely never try the Bunch Canyon route after reading trip reports about it, but I'm very curious as to where a historic trail to the lake might have been. If I had any clue, I'd probably be compelled to go take a look. I'll dig around some more for old maps of the Lake Quinault area...

The only map I can recall that depicts the Bunch Lake Trail is the 1936 Olympic National Forest wall map.  I scanned a copy of the base map with hand-colored overlays depicting the forest's recreational use zones, and it's posted here http://windsox.us/Cleator_1928/Map_1938.html

The small map scale makes it useless for navigation, but in general it appears to be the Bunch Canyon route, beginning from South Quinault Shore Road just west of Bunch Creek, and crossing to the east side of Bunch Creek in about a mile, and continuing above the east bank of Bunch Creek up to Bunch Lake.  I can only imagine one would be very lucky to locate any trace of this trail today.

Sorry I have nothing more helpful to offer!

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"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostSun Jan 27, 2019 8:49 am 
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ranger rock wrote:
I still wish I knew why they abandoned the uphill section of 4 stream trail that looks like it is headed for Snow Lake.  Perhaps the forest service road being built up above was the reason they stopped building so abruptly.

This is only sheer speculation, but I've always assumed the plan was for Four Stream and Steel Creek Trails to meet at Snow Lake (and, again sheer speculation, perhaps continue up Mt. Tebo, a potential lookout site?).  Construction of both trails was abandoned in the early 1930s, long before the logging roads intersecting these trails were contemplated or built (late 1950s).

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"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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PostTue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm 
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In the 30's oh okay.. how do you know that?  There was a Steel Creek trail?
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