[HumpnoocheeGirl]

[trestle]

careful hg, your mistrust of the feds is showing.

[HumpnoocheeGirl]

[Kim Brown]

[HumpnoocheeGirl]

[Kim Brown]

I used the word “vote,” and you seemed to be confused about it. Just clarifying.

[HumpnoocheeGirl]

[Kim Brown]

It's always confusing; the internet I mean. It's more fun to talk, and banter back and forth and debate face to face. It always ends up with folks going out for a beer, too.

[cairn builder]

I personally think they should open the legal marihuana stores and use part of the tax windfall to fund healthy/outdoor recreation. That would help with the need to close roads and charge use fees, like the Discover Pass. Kim, you might be able to answer this: are they closing more roads in ONF than in MBSNF,considering the numbers of people who use each forest? Seems like that's the best way since a closure in ONF will impact fewer people.

[Kim Brown]

There are more road miles in ONF than MBS, however, there are more active logging projects on ONF than on MBS. Comparing the 2 is almost like comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruit, but after that, they're not the same. (now it's on the internet , so it must be true: the Forest Service is fruit). It's not a mileage thing or who has more users. It's simply time to tighten up the road system and decommission roads that no longer have administrative need or reasonable recreational or other need, and to assess where the public goes and what kinds of things the public wants the USFS to consider when making determinations for the road system. ONF, Colville and Umatilla may have more roads for administrative purposes than MBS; MBS may have more need for wilderness access. THey all provide a lot of recreation. Whether to keep a road open or not seems like it would be easy to those who want to keep all roads open, but it is not that easy. There are a lot of different ideas out there. Everyone has a stake in the forest, not just people who want to keep roads open. In the MBS process, a table of participants listed which types of things they want the USFS to consider when choosing which roads or portions of roads to close; the criteria ranged from ecosystem damage and expansion of wilderness to cost. Some didn't care about cost, they want to keep a road open for access to hunting. Some did care about cost. Some don't care about the environmental impact, or see a road as a way to enhance environment (getting in to thin trees, or treat disease for instance). Likewise, they asked which criteria to consider when keeping roads open. Cost, partnership with volunteers, access to wilderness, recreation opportunities (number of trailheads, whitewater rafting, views, dispersed camping, hunting) were some ideas. This process is not a decision-making process. Nothing will be decided, but it's a framework for the ONF to know what kinds of things the public wants, they want to know where the public goes on the forest and why they go there. For instance, on the Mt Baker District, snowmobilers identified roads they like. Before roads are decommissioned, a separate NEPA process will be done. When all said and done, it sounds like a weird bit of government-speak - since it's the USFS, it is government - and when the statisticians get involved, it's even weirder. It is a very difficult thing to quantify. This process is a preliminary input that they're offering. They don't have to do it this way. They could just start right in with the NEPA and target roads to close with no preliminary input. My guess is that no one will get everything they want. That's the only no-brainer thing about it. Speaking of snowmobiles, there's a new process about "over snow" travel within the USFS. So it's constant - public demands really give the USFS and NPS a workout.

[Ski]

[Kim Brown]

That's why so many people who work for the USFS are insane. Some of them started out that way -- I mean, hello, what were you thinking. But some probably started out relatively sane, but went nuts after awhile. It probably didn't take long.

[RodF]

[HumpnoocheeGirl]

[kbatku]

The Naches Ranger District is the last ranger district in the country without a road management plan. Enjoy it while you can - the feds are really pressing the NRD to get in line. The reason they haven't is mostly due to public pressure, and the task of documenting thousands of miles of "roads" that aren't on any map. When they finally do adopt a plan, any vehicular travel on these informal roads and jeep trails will be banned, and that's what has the locals up in arms. It's our culture around here, and people like it very, very much thank you.