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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:06 am 
One of the great arguments in this Saloon has been state subsidies to eastern Washington from western Washington. Well a Seattle Representative was finally fed up with it and asked the state Office of Financial Management to do a study by county on state expenditures and revenues. So here are the links to the official studies. Of course, they only did the data by county and did not split the state into two. http://www.ofm.wa.gov/fiscal/expenditures_and_revenues/state_expenditures_revenues_by_cty.pdf ww.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/03499E61-35F1-44C5-836D-ED6AD0703E22/0/CountyByCounty20042012Jan2013.pdf So I put together a spreadsheet to look at state spending versus revenue on a east/west basis. Could have made some mistakes...but the trend is clear. For 2012 eastern Washington provided subsidies of 19.37 million dollars to western Washington. It looks like from the data that this sum will only continue to grow in the future. This does NOT include eastern Washington county subsidies to western Washington residents like medical care, law enforcement, search and rescue, etc. Interesting data sets. I will continue the analysis so appreciate your comments and observations. BE CIVIL....please.

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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seattlenativemike
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:19 am 
ok but we have the coffee and the software.... wink.gif

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SeanSullivan86
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:23 am 
The table in the link you provided shows the following for King County in 2012: Expenditures : 3967 Tax Revenues : 6140 Western Washington is not a single homogeneous entity.

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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:26 am 
West vs East is too broad a statement, King county pretty much subsidizes the state. Whatcom, Skagit, Garfield, Kittatas, and San Juan have a slight positive contribution. Snohomish had a contribution but went negative due to accounting changes.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:29 am 
seattlenativemike wrote:
ok but we have the coffee and the software....
Not to mention the stadiums, roads, convention center and all the other things we helped pay for. It is an interesting report....well worth reading whatever side of the Cascades you live. Thanks to OFM and DOT for putting it together. BTW....the tipping point was the transportation budget which really flows east to west. Couple of other observations: Counties with lots of poor people cost the state government lots of money!! It also appears that eastern Washington gets LESS state funding on a per capita basis. Which is interesting since so many programs are based on population. I did see one report that state funding of schools in eastern Washington is less than that of western Washington on a per pupil basis. Lots of interesting observations buried in the data.......for example DHS spends more on Adams County for Adams County in Olympia than in Adams County and that includes benefits to paid.

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 11:57 am 
BigSteve wrote:
quote="Malachai Constant"]West vs East is too broad a statement, King county pretty much subsidizes the state.
ditto.gif King County generates 41.28% of revenue, gets back 22.87% (avg. Methods 1&2) of expenditures.[/quote] Check out Thurston County....that is where King County revenue goes. King County gets a whole slug of transportation funding from the rest of the state. What caught my eye......Snohomish County is break-even. Pierce is a "welfare" county as well as Clark. I suspect with the Boeing tax breaks Snohomish will also slip into the negative. Is most of the Puget Sound shopping and services in King County?? Really the only people paying taxes in Washington state are shoppers, small business and small property owners. I was surprised at Spokane county being negative given that they are a shopping hub for western Montana, north Idaho, eastern Washington, BC and Alberta. I do know that AT&T and other large corporations were paying taxes for years to King County that should have gone to Chelan County. I think that issue is being cleaned up. Some of that might be going on in King County.

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 12:05 pm 
509 wrote:
Thurston County....that is where King County revenue goes
Huh? King County revenue goes to the WA general fund. The state capital is in Thurston County, so of course there are disproportionate expenditures there. shakehead.gif
509 wrote:
Pierce is a "welfare" county as well as Clark.
So, why do you avoid mentioning Franklin, Walla Walla and Whitman?

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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 12:30 pm 
Don't forget Stevens, Okanogan and Yakima. BTW Walla Walla is due to the state prison and Whitman is WSU...good point...see below. However, those counties are full of poor people. You would expect the state government to spend more there!!! Clark, Snohomish, and Pierce counties are wealthy counties. The fact they are NOT contributing to the state budget is troubling. Progressive taxation...it is a good thing. Thurston is an interesting case. Way back in the 90's when I was still working as an Economist a state employee showed up and wanted to know how the state could mitigate the spotted owl impact on rural counties. My answer was simple. Take state government jobs that do NOT need to be located in Olympia and move them to rural counties that are hurting economically. With most of eastern Washington covered with fiber optic lines it would be fairly easy to move a large portion of the state workforce. The state would get better employees since they would not have to compete with high wage private sector jobs. This folks is why post offices in small towns provide great service while in urban areas...well it is interesting just going to the post office. Anyway, he looked like I was from Mars. It was a simple solution without any additional state spending. It would make a HUGE difference to counties like Gray's Harbor, Okanogan, and others to have a stable workforce. Better than any job training program!!

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 12:55 pm 
Yikes. Where to start?
509 wrote:
Stevens, Okanogan and Yakima [counties] are full of poor people * * * Pierce count[y] [is] wealthy. . . .
News flash: Far more poor people live in Pierce County than any other county (except King) in WA.
509 wrote:
My answer was simple. Take state government jobs that do NOT need to be located in Olympia and move them to rural counties. . . .
Simple? Nah. Try "inefficient." Do you want the legislature and state agencies to do business by teleconference?
509 wrote:
Progressive taxation...it is a good thing.
I agree, but it doesn't exist in WA. And I'm surprised to hear a 509er support progressive taxation in WA. Are you talking about a progressive state income tax? (I cannot think of another form of progressive tax that would raise sufficient revenue.) What do you do about the WA constitution robber/timber baron provision? Amending the state constitution might be necessary to clear the way for a progressive tax, but history tells us that won't happen because the 509ers would oppose it.

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Conifers
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 3:32 pm 
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 3:59 pm 
^ ^ ^ very sad, but true, and that chart does not fully depict the regressive nature of the B&O tax. I don't expect WA's woefully regressive tax system to change in my lifetime because a meaningful discussion re tax policy defies sound bites, and there's also the problem with the WA constitution.

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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 6:11 pm 
BigSteve wrote:
^ ^ ^ very sad, but true, and that chart does not fully depict the regressive nature of the B&O tax.
The B&O tax was a great corporate tax since it gives no room for hiding profits through accounting loopholes. However, since 1980 the Washington state legislature has exempted western Washinton corporations from the B&O tax. According to the Office of Financial Management the top 100 corporations in Washington pay just 6.5% of the B&O tax. They will NOT release individual company data...I asked. So Boeing, Mircrosoft, PacCar, Amazon, Weyerhauser and all those other large corporations that ONLY have operations in western Washington are exempt from the B&O tax. We, in eastern Washington, are more than willing to tax western Washington Corporations. If you can get support from western Washington Representatives to tax western Washington corporations I am SURE that we will support western Washington in fair taxes. The B&O tax is much better than a corporate or personal income tax. You can't hide the money since it is GROSS receipts. I suspect that is why over the past thirty years the Legislature has exempted large corporation from the B&O tax. As Bob Brinker says "we have the best Government money can buy".

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 6:37 pm 
BigSteve wrote:
509 wrote:
My answer was simple. Take state government jobs that do NOT need to be located in Olympia and move them to rural counties. . . .
Simple? Nah. Try "inefficient." Do you want the legislature and state agencies to do business by teleconference?
Well, yes what's wrong with that?? Boeing has a rocket scientist working in Okanogan County. Ford Motor Company has a designer living in Wenatchee. The high tech infrastructure in eastern Washington serves these people and many others. The Forest Service did an analysis of the Washington Office and found that 20-30% of the people in Washington, DC did not have to be there. So it let them move to Wenatchee, Boise, Missoula and other places in the west. The taxpayers got a deal, they did NOT have to pay locality pay for Washington, DC The employees got a deal, they did NOT have to live in DC. Same thing can be done with government employees in Olympia and Seattle. I heard something about a talk show host that said if STATE government employees did not have to commute it would solve traffic problems in Puget Sound. It is a win-win. Less traffic in Puget Sound, better employees and happier state employees living in eastern Washington AND those counties get a boost with a stable employer.

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 6:54 pm 
well, us 206ers have to pay to ride our ferries, while eastern washington just got a brand new all-aluminum 20 million dollar ferry and everybody gets to ride on it for free.....

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509
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PostWed Jun 25, 2014 7:17 pm 
marzsit wrote:
well, us 206ers have to pay to ride our ferries, while eastern washington just got a brand new all-aluminum 20 million dollar ferry and everybody gets to ride on it for free....
Well, yeah. It was just some leftover money from all the transportation funds sent to western Washington. But over half the passengers on the ferry are from western Washington. Enjoy the ride. Really, the state needs to take over the Lake Chelan ferry terminal from the Forest Service. What the hell, is the Forest Service doing running a ferry terminal for Washington state residents!!!

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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