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CHECKTHISOUT
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Joined: 21 Jun 2012
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| Daryl wrote: | | Although I suppose if enough of us wrote papers we could out number the other papers and maybe claim to have s consensus or something. Does that science strategy work? |
A consensus to out-consensus the consensussers!
It shall be a grand operation!
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CHECKTHISOUT
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Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 204 | TRs | Pics
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| MadCapLaughs wrote: | | Daryl wrote: | | See all the other papers already published and laughed off. the political machine has taken over and resistance is futile. |
Exactly the delusional paranoia I expected as an excuse. Of course it's not that you possess neither the expertise nor the evidence; no, it's the international socialist shadow government that has rigged the game against red-blooded, self-sufficient individuals such as yourself.
Get a grip. |
Whoa there democrat. Slow that Donkey down!
Remember the right-wing conspiracy that killed Kennedy and Hillary Clinton and the vast right wing conspiracy that fabricated those lies about Clinton and using a women as an Ashtray.
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joker
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
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 Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:28 am |
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Delusional paranoia crosses party lines. Duh.
Speaking of which: that China skyline full of fine particulates wouldn't have anything to do with dramatically lower wages, huge investment in building a manufacturing base, and free trade laws (here, at least somewhat...) supported by multinational firms (laws that I think are better than protectionism btw...)?
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drm
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:28 am |
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| joker wrote: | | I continue to believe that if you've indeed found such a basic and fatal flaw on the science claims as you believe here, that you will have no problem getting a short and sweet paper published in Nature or Science. Blockbuster!! I'm waiting... |
If somebody did this, they would win the Nobel Prize and be famous and rich. But since it hasn't happened, of course it is a conspiracy of some sort.
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drm
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:35 am |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | note the presumption changes cannot be explained by natural means |
Right. With a sample size of 30,000 and a statistically significant signal of 90%, it is assuredly not natural. Sounds like statistics is not your thing. I don't know why I keep coming back. Oh right - my client got hacked and I have no work to do this morning.
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Daryl
Big Shot Economist
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 1817 | TRs | Pics
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Daryl
Big Shot Economist
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:27 am |
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| drm wrote: | | joker wrote: | | I continue to believe that if you've indeed found such a basic and fatal flaw on the science claims as you believe here, that you will have no problem getting a short and sweet paper published in Nature or Science. Blockbuster!! I'm waiting... |
If somebody did this, they would win the Nobel Prize and be famous and rich. But since it hasn't happened, of course it is a conspiracy of some sort. |
I'm not sure.
If we proved global warming stopped years ago (i.e it's not a pause), that would be reason to celebrate. Would everyone be happy though? A lot of agendas would be squashed and a lot of people's life work would be proven wrong. How long before we know this, 10, 20 years? I'll mark my calendar to come back to this thread.
Or, if we just proved man wasn't contributing (or at least not significant enough to drive costly changes) there would be a lot of people unhappy about not being able to do anything about it (rightfully so) and a lot of people with squashed agendas. And I'm sure the "we have to do something" crowd would still want to do something, for the children of course.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:30 am |
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| drm wrote: | | Right. With a sample size of 30,000 and a statistically significant signal of 90%, it is assuredly not natural. Sounds like statistics is not your thing. I don't know why I keep coming back. Oh right - my client got hacked and I have no work to do this morning. |
You don't seem to grasp the fundamental problem here. It is not any number of samples sizes, or a consensus, or any statistical significance even at 99%.
It is that a *presumption* that it must be human caused is not based on an empirical reference point concerning what the climate of a non CO2 forced system 'should' be. There is no control case.
No number of statistics is sufficient to overcome a problem at the base of all the claims. Warming enthusiasts have chosen something they wish to 'know' which cannot be known due to first principles. There isn't even any way to know how close any estimates actually are, because there is no means to empirically test any of the more complex sub claims either, for the same reasons.
I know it's inconvenient. This does not mean it's not true.
You can muster any number of arguments why you don't care, or someone else says it doesn't matter, but the fact will remain.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:53 am |
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| MadCapLaughs wrote: | | Au contraire, mon ami. It gets right to the heart of the problem, the problem being untrained joe schmoes thinking they can, with a few hundred words, easily dismantle the case built by thousands upon thousands of trained, degree-holding climate scientists worldwide who actually do research and publish their findings in peer-reviewed journals.
If you are as cocksure as you come across, then why don't you do something about it rather than pointlessly bantering in an internet forum? Publishing your important findings would be directly addressing the problem, not sidestepping it.
This really does get at something at the heart of the matter. Pretty much every actual climate scientist in the world disagrees with you. Really what more is there to it than that? |
The heart of the problem is the failure of so many, as yourself, to adhere to the realities of a well trodden and demonstrated path, the actual scientitic method and it's very solid logical underpinnings.
You can attack me all you like and it won't change the reality that the claims made are not and can never be tested against a control case. Not one of your critiques of me changes this fact, and far more tellingly, not one of you has falsified this assertion, either.
Note that all I need to do to earn the sobriquet 'cocksure' is calmly and coherently reference standard scientific method in all other fields. It seems you have a real problem with someone merely being confident enough to assert facts you can't even falsify. It hints at your judgement being rooted in the idea that it's numbers of believers that count, not science or logic.
Should I call you that because you argue what you believe? Or because you outsource your own judgement even on matters you are perfectly competent to judge?
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Mongo
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Mongo
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:55 am |
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so as the oceans continue to change (rapidly) and warming starts to have major impacts, and nobody does anything about it, it will be for all the correct logical reasons, as defined by our brain trust here. sure that makes sense.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:01 am |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | MCL you don't understand, their job is not to convince anyone with their sophistic arguments. Their job is to convince naive folks that there is a "controversy". Politicians in pay from "energy producers" and " job creators" can then delay effective action due to the uncertainty. The result is short term profits for those who pay the bill. |
It's unclear you understand what sophistry is, even as you provide an incredibly potent example of it.
If you did, you'd have to do more than drop in drive bys, and actually defend claims you make. But they and their internal 'logic' falls apart readily if you do, so this is the result. Pop in and peep, bolt, pop in and peep.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:03 am |
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| Mongo wrote: | | so as the oceans continue to change (rapidly) and warming starts to have major impacts, and nobody does anything about it, it will be for all the correct logical reasons, as defined by our brain trust here. sure that makes sense. |
Everything changes, and always has.
Luckily the very real logical problems with the basis of the claims, the failure to predict the plateau and other failures from increased hurricance to ice cap hysteria has resulted in a definite stalling of further wastes of resources based upon these problematic claims. Plenty of polls show this issue to be very far down the list of most people's concerns, neither China nor India are doing anything about (China does like selling rare earths for 'green' infrastructure, though), Australia has ended it's carbon credit fee, and Spain is wrestling with the economic fallout of it's economically disastrous 'green' energy push.
Skeptics have succeeded in blunted the bull headed rush to further irrational behavior. That's a feature, not a flaw.
Combine all this with the vast increase in reserves due to fracking, and England, France and even Germany now considering fracking to relieve their dependence on gas from Putin, and the controversy is still well and truly on.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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cairn builder
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The nutters are out in droves lately.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:18 pm |
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Is displaying one's own intolerance of disagreement and the inability to actually falfisy ideas one claims are wrong, a sign of good judgement?
Or is it displaying someone out of rational ideas?
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
All you will get is drive bys and sneers and derision because that is all you are worth. Any one can go to a"skeptic" web site and find all your arguments. They are all rebutted in detail on the reality based websites. There is no point arguing. I do not play that game.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:18 pm |
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| Malachai Constant wrote: | | All you will get is drive bys and sneers and derision because that is all you are worth. Any one can go to a"skeptic" web site and find all your arguments. They are all rebutted in detail on the reality based websites. There is no point arguing. I do not play that game. |
Thanks for elegantly demonstrating your mindset and admission of drive bys.
the logic of the rest, it demonstrates how your judgement operates
Which 'reality based' site falsifies my observation of the lack of a control case?
Which one falsifies the fact that the plateau was not predicted?
Which one falsifies the failure of the hurricane increases predicted?
There aren't any, since these things are all testable, and they are all true.
So here we have facts the 'reality' folks can't change, so they're reduced to arguing these pieces of reality don't matter. Just like you do.
The sheer pettiness, in place of dealing with disagreement hints at the deeper issues. Other folks here manage to display courtesy and respect even as we sharply disagree. You on the other hand demonstrate something quite the opposite. They at bring details and arguments.
You bring snark and run. Even better, you clearly do want to play a game, because you keep showing up in spite of a lack of substance, or courtesy for that matter.
People who *actually* have no interest in a game demonstrate it with their actions... They don't show up. Your choices on the other hand show you in fact do play the game. Looking at the content of your post above shows what it takes to yield the self satisfaction you're giving yourself.
I'm glad I don't need to use such an approach to satisfy internal needs of that nature, but then, I was raised to treat others with respect, and to feel shame when I fail to do so. Obviously we have very different values, and given the example above, I could not be more thankful
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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