Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Helicopters and mules to move Quinalt lodge
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contour5
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PostSat Aug 16, 2014 6:41 pm 
I'm actually a finish carpenter and cabinetmaker- I worked on a couple of house moving projects in the past, but have no real clue as to the cost breakdown. If I understand the process correctly, they're going to slide some beams under the chalet, jack the building up, push some logs underneath and winch it away from the river using come alongs tied down to trees or rocks. They'll have to build a new foundation to set it on. Sounds like the plan is to take it a short distance to a "Temporary" location, thus ensuring further lucrative future contracts. This will certainly take 6 people a few days, at minimum. With luck, the structure won't collapse during this process. Hopefully the building will move as planned, instead of simply ripping out the anchoring trees or rocks. Or crushing the building into a pile of rotting sticks... As to cost- the contractor offered to do it for free, using volunteer labor. The helicopter needed to carry in the beams and other heavy items is already paid for...right? Seems like a no-brainer to haul the tools and supplies in on the same flights, and take them out the same way. But there's talk of mules. Somebody who knows somebody has some mules... and man are they expensive! Or maybe the volunteers are actually employees of the contractor... who's getting $124,000 for what he says is 3 days work... Sorry- not enough info to do a cost breakdown. Perhaps the contractor will post a nice spreadsheet and enlighten us all...

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Logbear
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PostSat Aug 16, 2014 7:06 pm 
Apparently this job did not go out for bid. July 29th News Tribune Park officials did announce Tuesday they were moving ahead with the intent to award a sole-source contract to Monroe House Movers. The project is expected to cost $40,000-$100,000, according to Park Service documents. “With August just around the corner, there is simply not enough time to conduct our normal solicitation and contracting process,” superintendent Sarah Creachbuam said in a news release.

“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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cairn builder
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PostSat Aug 16, 2014 8:15 pm 
How long until we need to have it moved again?

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cairn builder
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PostSat Aug 16, 2014 8:17 pm 
And $124,000 is a lot of free. Smells fishy.

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Logbear
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PostSat Aug 16, 2014 11:42 pm 
cairn builder wrote:
How long until we need to have it moved again?
The FONSI mentions "potential long-term (more than one year) ...placement of steel beams to provide temporary structural foundation after relocation. So it sounds like the Chalet will be sitting on steel beams ready to be moved again whenever the mood strikes. The foundation is considered "historic" so it can will be left intact. I thought I read somewhere that a portion of the foundation has already fallen into the river. So the foundation will be left in place because it's historic and the Chalet will be moved because it's historic. Will the public have access to the chalet when it's left up on the steel beams, or will it be surrounded by caution tape?

“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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treeswarper
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 6:42 am 
The helicopter may already be "paid for" but this project may be a different budget item, which did not have any money allocated to it. The bean counters must do things by the book. So additional funding might have been needed for that specific job.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Logbear
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 10:37 am 
CHECKTHISOUT wrote:
I can understand the alarm at the price but if you think the price is too high... What do you think it should cost and how did you arrive at that price? (Show your work)
Back on May 21, Jeff's house wrote: Due to the countless number of people who want to participate in saving EVC, I have volunteered my services to relocate the chalet for FREE using a volunteer crew of five people plus myself. This will take three days when on site and then we pack up camp and go home with the chalet out of danger. I think the question Contour5 is asking is if 6 volunteers were going to "relocate the chalet for free", and NPS is providing the helicopter, what is the $124,000 paying for. As far as insurance, a volunteering brochure for the Park Service says " You will be covered for worker’s compensation in the event of an injury while on duty and, in the event of property damage or personal injury, you will be covered for tort claim liability. Manpower: $0 Helicopter: $0 Insurance: $0 Food: ??? Steel beams to be left under the chalet:??? Pack mules:??? Total: $124,000 I'm sure there is a good explanation. We just haven't seen it yet.

“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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contour5
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 6:14 pm 
Hard to say what dimensions the steel will be, or how many beams they'll use, but the I-Beams are likely going to run $1,000 apiece, or more. Then there's the logs that they're going to use to roll the building on... I'm really hoping that the Forest Service isn't paying multiple thousands of dollars apiece for logs...

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RodF
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 8:31 pm 
contour5 wrote:
Perhaps the contractor will post a nice spreadsheet and enlighten us all...
I think that's a good idea. I assume NPS will post the contract on the FedBizOpps.Gov website (search for keyword "Enchanted" or solicitation number P14PS01966). But it's not posted there yet. Anyone interested could also request a copy from the contracting officer posted there. It is public information. And I think all who are curious should read it, and would find it enlightening on how all the provisions in Fed contracts are arrived at and cost us, as taxpayers. I think it's fair to say that if this were a private contract, it would cost half as much. I believe you will find every cent of the contract is for expenses, and the largest single budget item is mule packing services. There will be two mule packers, each running a pack train of six mules, making repeated trips for about two weeks. One of their largest expenses as authorized concessionaires is a $1 million liability insurance policy with NPS the named insured. Due to our packer's perfect safety record, his premium of $1700 per year has been reduced, that's good news. Last spring, he decided not to retire and sell off most of his mules, and renewed solely so a packer would be available just in case this project went ahead. What does it cost for feed, vet and farrier services for each head of stock for a year? For trucks and trailers and fuel and insurance and pasturage and haying? If you think this is a profitable business, in which you can clear even minimum wage for the year, please do give it a shot! As "management", I believe you'll find that Jeff is exempt from Federal Davis-Bacon Act prevailing wage standards. I believe you will find Jeff's compensation for many weeks of planning, several days of meetings, several weeks of preparation and execution of this contract, plus his masterly managerial profit, totals about $0. That's assuming everything goes smoothly, the largest variable not under his control being weather. However, NPS declined his offer to do this as a "volunteer" due to liability, and required it be done under contract. So he is not acting as an NPS Volunteers-In-Parks. So we cannot call him a "Volunteer". You can decide what a person willing to do this for nothing is to be called. A thesaurus suggests: agent, aid, aide, aide-de-camp, assistant, auxiliary, chattel, deputy, flunky, hand, help, helper, helping hand, helpmate, junior, laborer, lieutenant, menial, pawn, peon, serf, servant, slave, subject, subordinate, underling, vassal, unpaid worker. "Flunky", "peon", "serf" and "menial" each have their own special appeal, but I like "vassal"! wink.gif For taking on this project, his dad, who taught him the house moving business, simply calls him a "fool"! hockeygrin.gif
contour5 wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer to haul the tools and supplies in on the same flights, and take them out the same way.
"Seems like a no-brainer" may be true, but is not even in the book of the ground rules. Wilderness ground rules are "minimum necessary": nothing will be flown that can be packed. Anything that can be packed, by mules or on your back, must be packed. Expediency (and therefore time and cost) are not deciding factors.
contour5 wrote:
If I understand the process correctly, they're going to slide some beams under the chalet, jack the building up, push some logs underneath and winch it away from the river using come alongs tied down to trees or rocks.
You do not understand the process correctly. That'd work for an outhouse, but not for an 80-ton chalet! A brief overview of standard house moving techniques to be used was given in the Environmental Assessment on page 8 and reiterated in the FONSI page 5.

"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir "the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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FailsToMeetExpectations
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 8:40 pm 
Awesome! Thanks for jumping in. As to the art of moving rickety old buildings, it is sort of like a pilot: most of the time a monkey could do the job; however when you need them they are worth every penny that they cost. Knowing what not to do in this situation falls into that category.

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RodF
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 9:24 pm 
The Chalet is most certainly not "rickety". The fact that it stands there with one of its major walls entirely unsupported, and two of them only partially supported, is testament to that. It's almost balanced on its center beam, and it was never designed to be supported through its floor joist logs. But it's just hell for stout. It's situation is certainly precarious, though. If WW had more than a dozen members capable of hiking 13 miles, they could push it over into the river. Or better, all line up inside along that wall hanging out over the river, and tip it! The reason the contract cost has grown is that the contract has grown. Jeff isn't simply fabricating the steel, providing the equipment and tools, and moving the building, he's now required to provide all the packing services, including food and a cook for catered meals for four NPS employees who are supervising this. Jeff wants nothing out of this, just the opportunity to save the Chalet. As do all who are on his team, and 91% of the public who commented on the EA. Some of the comments above remind me so strongly of a situation 14 years ago, when:
Tim McNulty wrote:
Among projects on the drawing boards are the... reconstruction of the North Fork Sol Duc Shelter. This forgotten structure sits on an unused trail that had been abandoned for nearly a quarter century—until last year, that is. That’s when its reopening, through spotted owl and marbled murrelet habitat, was carried out by volunteers who had contracted to do the shelter reconstruction.
What is the implication? That they had spent two weeks clearing and restoring the trail, somehow disturbing birds 150 feet overhead in the canopy, so they could then be paid for some fraction the hundreds of hours they actually spent alongside Washington Conservation Corps in November and December 2000 restoring the shelter? Because the Park wouldn't allow them to do it as volunteers, and required it be done under contract. So just maybe in the end they cleared $1 a hour? Unless you deduct what they had willingly shelled out of their own pockets for food and fuel, then zip. When someone assumes with no justification that others are governed by venal motivations... well, that tells you about that person's mentality, and not one bit about the mentality of volunteers Dave Skinner, Gary Peterson and Frank Converse who were out there all of November and into December restoring that historic tral and that historic shelter. That attitude deserves to be called out.

"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir "the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Chico
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 10:12 pm 
RodF wrote:
Last spring, he decided not to retire and sell off most of his mules,
This wouldn't be Ed H would it Rod?

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Jeff's House
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PostSun Aug 17, 2014 11:56 pm 
Not allowed to volunteer, not allowed to donate any equipment left under chalet, not allowed to fly anything that mules can pack. Etc etc. I could go on. There is two weeks of mule packing for three days of actual move time, plus two days to fly with the copter. I'm trying to get this done with the "minimal tool" requirement under the wilderness act, very difficult.

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Ancient Ambler
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PostMon Aug 18, 2014 5:39 am 
Thanks to RodF for enlightening us on the cost aspects of this contract and thanks very much to Jeff's House for being willing to take this project on despite its many complications.

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RodF
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PostMon Aug 18, 2014 8:28 am 
Jeff strongly reminds me of another person I am proud to call a friend, Sam. Sam volunteers to spend a month every year in Médecins Sans Frontières, quietly treating quite everyday but often life-threatening illness and injuries in Bhutan. He's on call to hike in to our Park Wilderness whenever a hiker breaks a leg, and help stabilize them until they can be evacuated. After spending a career here in town in general and surgical practice, he now picks up a pulaski, loppers or drawknife to clear trails and build bridges. All for no monetary reward. Sam is the kind of guy who simply can't help himself. When he sees a patient, he sees a fellow human being whose suffering can be alleviated. Sam has a lifetime of expertise and just can't stand idly by and not use it. There are cynics here who would ask "What's he trying to prove, anyway?" They simply can't believe there are humanitarians and volunteers in this world. Jeff exhibits exactly the same mindset as Dr. Sam. His tools aren't scalpels or hypodermics, they are I-beams and hydraulic jacks. His patients aren't people, they are endangered historic buildings like the Chalet. But there are cynics here who just can't understand that.
Logbear wrote:
I'm sure there is a good explanation. We just haven't seen it yet.
“Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don’t learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us.” ― Stephen Colbert Logbear, rolleyes.gif sigh, whether you can believe it or not, there's not one person in NPS or its volunteer community struggling to protect this Wilderness river or this historic Chalet who has a single venal bone in their bodies. I do feel sorry for you, though. Because you just can't believe it. It is a sad world in which you live. I choose not to live in your world. And p.s. you can, too.

"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir "the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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