Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Elwha River free at last
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author     Message
AA+
WANative
Member
Member


Joined: 09 May 2016
Posts: 277 | TRs | Pics
WANative
Member
PostTue Sep 13, 2016 12:42 pm 
RandyHiker wrote:
Ski wrote:
Are the fish genetically hard-wired to return to their original spawning grounds?

I think this a bit of Disneyish myth.   Salmon have an urge to spawn in suitable creeks and rivers as far up as they can travel and a drawn to the unique scent of the stream where they were hatched.

However now that DNA testing has been used the results indicate that while nearly all of the fish spawn in the creek were hatched, it's not 100% -- a small percentage go up different streams.

If that wasn't the case and salmon would *ONLY* spawn in the stream they were hatched , then salmon would have never colonized more than a single stream -- so some amount of navigational errors are good for the species.

In other words, exactly what ski asked/said.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Snowbrushy
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound
Snowbrushy
Member
PostTue Sep 13, 2016 4:59 pm 
Elwha Tribe.


Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11794 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostWed Sep 14, 2016 11:27 am 
Wednesday September 14, 2016 11:01 PDT

Olympic National Park News Release

Debris Removal Underway at Two Former Dam Sites on Elwha River

US Army Corps of Engineers Aid in Continuing Restoration

Members of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) are working this week to remove hazardous debris and improve fish passage conditions at Elwha and Glines Canyon dam sites.

Remnants of the Elwha Dam’s foundation remain at the former dam site and include long pieces of rebar and other metal shards that pose a safety risk to boaters, as well as portions of the concrete foundation.  Boaters have been advised to avoid this area of river since May of this year.

Experts from the USACE visited the Elwha Dam site in late July and gathered information about the type and location of debris. About 25 pieces of debris, primarily one to three-foot-long pieces of twisted rebar were identified and mapped. This week, USACE divers are using an underwater cutting torch to remove the metal debris. The divers will also survey the remaining concrete dam  foundation and develop a plan for removing it during late summer of 2017.

Additionally, USACE engineers will use controlled blasting to remove several large boulders that are limiting fish passage through the former dam sites.  Fish have been successfully moving through both dam sites and are recolonizing the upper river, but biologists and river geologists remain concerned about passage impediments created by the boulders and sediment accumulating behind them. Two boulders will be demolished at the Elwha site, with four more at the Glines Canyon site.

Last fall, 14 large boulders were demolished in Glines Canyon, allowing the winter’s high flows to move them downstream and open the channel for improved fish passage.  Chinook, sockeye, bull trout and summer steelhead have all migrated through both dams to reach the upper river, while adult pink, coho and chum salmon, and Pacific lamprey have passed upstream of the former Elwha Dam site.

www.nps.gov

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1520 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
Member
PostThu Sep 15, 2016 3:23 pm 
Am I the only one who thinks diving to cut the rebar sounds like a combination of miserable and dangerous conditions?

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11794 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostThu Sep 15, 2016 7:45 pm 
^ that's why they get paid the big bucks. up.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
tinman
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 345 | TRs | Pics
Location: Where it rains, WA
tinman
Member
PostFri Sep 16, 2016 6:55 am 
Here's this mornings PA paper article about removing the rebar and boulders.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/news/more-blasting-done-on-elwha-river-dam-site/

--------------
Wherever you go, there you are.......
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1520 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
Member
PostFri Sep 16, 2016 5:47 pm 
Gee, newspaper notes as-built, record drawings are incomplete. A hundred years later and fancy CAD and BIM, and things are still the same.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Gregory
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2014
Posts: 379 | TRs | Pics
Gregory
Member
PostSat Sep 17, 2016 7:50 am 
mI think you will find most of these fish are not going to spawn in the main stem of the Elwa but the larger tributaries.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1520 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
Member
PostTue Sep 20, 2016 7:02 pm 
Chinook spawn in considerable numbers in Hanford Reach of the Columbia.

I don't know how much area is available in main stem vs tributaries but I would expect a lot of spawning in the main stem by chinook, steelhead, and maybe chum if gradients aren't too high. Pinks? Numbers have been low in recent years. I didn't see 2013 or 2015. As numbers rise and intra-specific competition becomes significant I'd expect them to spawn everywhere that is accessible. Sockeye?

As someone whose been involved turnkey culvert replacements for salmonid passage I have to complement forum posters.

It is quite common to need to dispel the idea that providing passage magically increases number of fish returning the first couple years. Yes, more will be seen above. That also means fewer will be spawning lower down. But idea that you are attempting to increase survival rates, leading to more fish in future generations is not self apparent to many. Math.

Go Forum!

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Gregory
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2014
Posts: 379 | TRs | Pics
Gregory
Member
PostWed Sep 21, 2016 5:51 am 
So if salmon do not spawn in the tribs why are we replacing culverts?

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11794 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostWed Sep 21, 2016 1:14 pm 
huh?
who said they don't spawn in tributary channels?
they spawn in main channels, side channels, and tributaries.

there are reasons for replacing culverts other than fish passage.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Gregory
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2014
Posts: 379 | TRs | Pics
Gregory
Member
PostThu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 am 
I get it Ski.The reason the state is spending a billion plus though is to allow anadromous fish back into areas the culverts have blocked.The poster above made it sound like the majority of the November spawners were going to be mainstem and I do not buy it.

I was surprised to learn,years ago, that the majority of the Chinook salmon in the Hoh do not spawn in the mainstem but in the tribs like Winfield creek.It makes sense if you witness what 30,000 cfm looks like.The reds are washed away.I suspect this very true of the Elwa.The places I have seen coho are miraculous.

I would be willing to bet that Sams river gets stired up every year by the kings that pass the gauntlet.Wink wink.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11794 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostThu Sep 22, 2016 11:43 am 
they run up Salmon River, Matheny Creek, Sams River, Paradise Creek, and any other ditch with water in it.
they spawn in main channels as well - late summer early fall you'll find flag tape up and down the mainline of the river where the QIN has marked redds.
same/same up on the Nisqually - Nisqually Tribe spotted redds from one of Weyerhauser's helicopters just upstream from our cabin in a side channel of the mainline.
some of them get scoured out - some don't.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Gregory
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2014
Posts: 379 | TRs | Pics
Gregory
Member
PostFri Sep 23, 2016 6:41 am 
I see the same tape on the Sf Hoh but no red.I question the red counts on rivers full of glacial flour done by people looking to harvest fish using the msy formula.By people I mean both parties concerned.

I am not saying they do not spawn in the main stem but that majority do not.Years of floating the Hoh, Park down every day it was fishable, I never saw a fish spawn in the main stem.The kings like to gang up in front of the larger tribs and the coho would spawn in my drain field if they could.We would get a pineapple express in late nov/
dec and there would literally be coho in a creek in our back yard the dried up every year.Spring spawners were a different story.Mother nature is smart enough to not put all its eggs in one basket both in timing and location.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11794 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostFri Sep 23, 2016 11:52 am 
^ hmmm... Queets is usually running pretty clear by June. Same on the Nisqually (if not earlier, because of the dams upstream.) Not all milky like the Hoh.
I've seen flag tape hung by QIN in the mainline all the way down to Coal Creek, and hung by NPS on the mainline all the way up to Hee Hee.
Supposedly all marking redds.
Seems odd, considering the degree of scouring year to year.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Elwha River free at last
  Happy Birthday HundsSolo!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy