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tom roy
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tom roy
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 Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:57 am |
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| glenoid wrote: | Bedivere: Tore everything up skiing!! Too loose alpine boots allowed my heel to raise up about three inches inside the boot. The back binding didn't get stressed and wouldn't release, instead my knee did-ouch. (Did ski down from the top of Schweitzer on it.) 
I continue to telemark, downhill ski and snowboard on it. Hiking doesn't bother the knee at all, but the leg swells from the clot damage. Rock climbing is hampered by my knee's lack of full flexion (the leg clot caused so much swelling that PT did not progress well)
My other knee has the meniscus torn off from it's bony attachment. It is more of a problem, but I get by...Nobody is touching it till I can't ski or hike anymore..
My preference now (after lot's of experience) is to build up the muscles around my knees to the max for stability. I will do what I want in the meantime. When I can't do what I want to do anymore, then I will get a tune-up or repair.
As a physician, I see a lot of "work" done on people, which IMO is done "too soon". I wonder a lot about who is benefiting the most from these surgeries! |
Not sure you could ski down if you completely tore those tendons? When I blew out my knee it was racing motocross tore everything up. When I tried to get back on my bike I could not even kick start it with out my knee collapsing. When they helped me to the ambulance it collapsed and ground multiple times. And then without MRIS they took their sweet time to repair it I was young and very fit and healthy.
I have been on the receiving end of people telling me Oh I just built my muscles up surgery is worse. All I know is I got many very good years on that repaired knee until last year when it was plain ridiculous. And have a new lease on walking with the bionic knee.
Not calling you out just saying you tear all those tendons completely its not like a ACl you can wait for even going doing down simple stairs will make your knee buckle. Partial tears and stretching of tendons leg muscle strength maybe beneficial I never experienced that.
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glenoid
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glenoid
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Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:58 pm |
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I skied down on one ski....The other was on, but little weight was placed on it. Not that hard to do actually.
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cascadetraverser
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I think the point to be made is, everyone is different. Some after just an ACL tear have complete instability and require surgery, others after an ACL tear, have specific anatomy and musculature allowing them to maintain a stable knee w/o reconstruction. In the circles I travel there seems to be a prevailing opinion that surgery is the only way to go, which I think is bunk. TomRoy, it sounds like your crowd has the opposite opinion....
BTW, I was going to add that I bet my brother skied down the hill on one leg (I was`t there) but he beat me to it! 
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Dalekz
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Dalekz
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Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:36 pm |
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The ACL topic was a major part of a recent thread
https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8013597
I had mine cut out in the late 60's long before a repair was in the works. I think it depends on where the break is because for me the ends floated into the knee joint and causing it to not straighten out. So out it had to come (5" open knee SOP for that era --no scope) Lasted OK for 20 yrs Skiing everything available (till the cartilage had flattened from the instability and required a repair --again repairs were just being introduced - so - 2 --4" openings. Now the scar tissue build up requires a roto-rooter procedure every 10 yrs or so to clean out the joint.
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tom roy
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tom roy
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Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:56 pm |
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| cascadetraverser wrote: | | TomRoy, it sounds like your crowd has the opposite opinion. |
This is bunk we both completely tore our MCl , ACL and LCL off the bone. And lost eighty percent of our cartridge. If you keep going on injured knees most likely you were never hurt bad enough to require surgery.
No body type or exorcize makes a difference if you do the full meal deal.
ACL's for weekend warriors, surgery is usually optional.
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cascadetraverser
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Tomroy: Sounds like you have it all figured out. And it would appear I will be in for a long horrible life w/o my surgically repaired knee. Maybe next time I need some medical advice about my knee, I will send you a email......
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tom roy
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tom roy
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Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:26 pm |
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| cascadetraverser wrote: | | Tomroy: Sounds like you have it all figured out. And it would appear I will be in for a long horrible life w/o my surgically repaired knee. Maybe next time I need some medical advice about my knee, I will send you a email...... |
Not even close stay with a physician  Just have herd all this stuff many times before over the years.
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glenoid
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glenoid
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Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:55 pm |
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Tom Roy: You read too much into what was said. To be specific since you seem to need details. My left ACL was completely torn. The PCL was about 10% intact. Both meniscus had bucket handle tears. The MCL was torn but no repair was needed for it. Do I need to send you the MRI and OP note? Give me a break. Read what a person says before inferring more into it then what was said.
My point: All injuries are different. All can be treated in different ways. I object to surgeons that seem to need to do surgery no matter what....I see $$$$ here.
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tom roy
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tom roy
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Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:27 am |
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| glenoid wrote: | | Tom Roy: You read too much into what was said. To be specific since you seem to need details. My left ACL was completely torn. The PCL was about 10% intact. Both meniscus had bucket handle tears. The MCL was torn but no repair was needed for it. Do I need to send you the MRI and OP note? Give me a break. Read what a person says before inferring more into it then what was said.
My point: All injuries are different. All can be treated in different ways. I object to surgeons that seem to need to do surgery no matter what....I see $$$$ here. |
You have a valid point if you read some of my posts you will see I have a nero disease. The last three plus years have been hell my knee is a small part of it.
Yhea lots of well meaning coments telling me about simple cures. Very tired of hearing about glucosomine ive paid enough taking that stuff.
I do wish you the best and I really miss sking and climbing. Most likely I am just jealous. And its tuff being cut short on a passion I took for granted and knowing my situation only will progress.
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glenoid
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glenoid
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Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:26 am |
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Tom Roy: Wishing you the best. Thanks for your reply! I agree, there is a lot of junk medicine and advice out there. We are all so different in each of our own situations.
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joker
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joker
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Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:38 am |
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| Bedivere wrote: | | a team doctor for the Sounders |
I was lucky with my ACL, relatively speaking. It was only strained not badly torn so PT did the trick and though the knee has never been fully the same it has been pretty good. But if I ever have something worse happening, I'd want to go to someone with tons of experience who does orthopedic work for a sports team or two, I think. Lots of observation of what happens to athletes after the work, and a focus on getting me back into my games.
Seems like it's bounced around over the year between cadaver grafts and harvesting from your body - it is interesting to see the pros and cons mentioned here. It's great to have a doc who reads all the relevant journal papers and keeps up on this stuff - to go mathematical for a moment that's necessary but not sufficient. Again, I'd want to get advice from a doc who had a LOT of direct experience with athletes, including lots of observation of what happens under hard use after surgery, how PT was working out etc.
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Bedivere
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Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:16 am |
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| joker wrote: | | Bedivere wrote: | | a team doctor for the Sounders |
I was lucky with my ACL, relatively speaking. It was only strained not badly torn so PT did the trick and though the knee has never been fully the same it has been pretty good. But if I ever have something worse happening, I'd want to go to someone with tons of experience who does orthopedic work for a sports team or two, I think. Lots of observation of what happens to athletes after the work, and a focus on getting me back into my games.
Seems like it's bounced around over the year between cadaver grafts and harvesting from your body - it is interesting to see the pros and cons mentioned here. It's great to have a doc who reads all the relevant journal papers and keeps up on this stuff - to go mathematical for a moment that's necessary but not sufficient. Again, I'd want to get advice from a doc who had a LOT of direct experience with athletes, including lots of observation of what happens under hard use after surgery, how PT was working out etc. |
This is why I went to sports medicine orthos for both knees and my shoulder and sought out team docs.
One of the things that steered me to the docs at Swedish was their years of experience patching up athletes and the recommendations of two other skiers over at TAY. I would've gone back to the doc who did my first knee back in '96 but he's since retired.
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everyfrog
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What I'm confused by is that since I initially said No to the Patella, 3 of the 4 docs i've interviewed (all sports team docs for high school and pro) said hamstring and one suggested the cadaver for me (actually, reviewing my notes, I think its been 2 for hamstring, 2 for cadaver. That TOTALLY HELPS.
But at this point, after reading all the forums i've posted this question to, and all the journals i've read, I'm about ready to go with what I know and do the patella - knee sensitivity be damned. (which sucks b/c i like yoga and gardening - the two things that would bother it the most... )
And while I interviewed Dr. Wilcox at Swedish, I'm half tempted to try and get in with Dr. Holland, who I've heard over and over again as a fantastic doc.
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RichardJ
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RichardJ
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Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:23 pm |
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Everyfrog. I would hate to have a part in steering you towards the patella option and then it turn out to be a bad choice for you. Lots of advancements in this type of surgery have occurred the last 25 years, I'm sure, and I would not know what is best for today. I could not be happier with the outcome of my patellar procedure. I think it took about 2 or 3 years to no longer have any sensitivity when kneeling down. The sensitivity was just numbness. If my half torn left ACL ever gets completely blown out I would not hesitate to do the same procedure all over again. All the hard rehab was 100% worth it for me. Good luck!
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everyfrog
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I've been reading so much literature about all the various procedures and ligaments and statistically how they work as well as many many many personal stories and experiences, (but I also know is relative to each person and how much rehab they did). Overall, patella tendon is coming out ahead plus I know how that surgery and rehab goes and know what to expect.
My mother, a single mother at the time and fulltime schoolteacher when I busted my other knee 17 years ago, was on me like a rock with my PT, post-PT and making sure she was doing everything she could to get me back to strength. I fully credit her to the strong knee I have now.
From all my research, the thing that keeps coming back consistently is that the patella is the strongest by far, even for all the pain through rehab and initial post surgery (trust me, i STILL REMEMBER the day-after pain was 17 years ago!). Hamstring comes in close 2nd...
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