[Cyclopath]

I love star photos. For me, backpacking is usually a much better experience than day hiking. I love being outdoors, and more time in the mountains is more enjoyable. Once I set camp up, I like to watch the sunset if I can, then watch the sky get really blue and fade to black, then sit around stargazing. (I don't even usually have a fire because the stars are a better show.) So starry landscapes are pictures of the essence of what it is to go on a long trek through the mountains, for me. The photos have an emotional punch. And they're unusual, so they stand out. How are you approaching your starry photos? Want to share any examples?

[NacMacFeegle]

Here's a few of my best attempts at star photography, note that all of them have been heavily edited in Lightroom, but are still very noisy:

The one farthest to the right was taken a long time ago with my old Pentax K-r, the rest were taken with the 60D. For all of them I used very long exposures (30 seconds except for the 3rd one for which I used 15 second exposure), and high ISOs (except for the first image which I used a low ISO for, there was bright, full moon that night and though it dimmed the stars it lit up the quickly moving clouds). They look great when viewed as thumbnails, but the noise becomes very noticeable when they are enlarged, and I can't remove more noise because the images become very soft.

[Cyclopath]

How are you viewing them enlarged? Are you making prints, using a big monitor, or zooming in to 100 %? Are these the jpegs the camera produced or did you convert them from the raw? Do you remember focal lengths and (more importantly) apertures, by any chance? Except for #2 I wouldn't personally find these objectionable. But I'm guessing #2 is more along the lines of what you'd like to do, a full moon can be fun but you saw how it hides the stars, and #3 has city lights which you don't see much of in the mountains... I don't have my files handy but if you'd like to PM me an email address I'll try to send you a comparable image from a 5D v3 so you can see how much difference there is.

[NacMacFeegle]

I'm viewing them on my 15" laptop monitor and zooming in to 100% for editing. I haven't printed large copies of these photos, though I have included two of them in photo-books. The first and the third were taken in RAW format and converted to JPEG after I edited them, the second and fourth were taken as JPEGs. All of them were shot at 18mm (which works out to about 30mm on a crop sensor). I usually shoot in RAW, but if I'm running out of space on a long trip I will switch to JPEG. #2 does have the worst noise, I shot it as a JPEG at 6400 ISO, part of the problem with the 60D is that after ISO 3200 there is a severe drop in image quality. Actually, I'm not sure now why I shot this image at such a high ISO, since I'm usually careful to stay at 3200 or below.

[Cyclopath]

You were using 6400 ISO because you had to! It was obviously a dark scene and that must have been the sensitivity you needed to get a proper exposure in 30 seconds. I'm guessing your 18-200 mm is probably about f/4 at the wide end and f/5.6 at the long end? If you had an f/2.8 lens you'd get the same shot at 3200 ISO; if your lens opened to f/2 that would be 1600 ISO and at f/1.4 you'd be shooting 800 ISO for the same exposure. With shots like this, you're focused at infinity so depth-of-field doesn't really matter. Anyway that's one reason a lot of people invest in lenses more than bodies. Some options for fast landscape lenses are: Sigma 20 mm f/1.8, Canon 24 mm f/1.4, Canon 35 mm f/2, and probably others. You probably want a lot of sky in the picture so FF really helps a lot, it keeps those lenses wide. I sent you a few starry landscapes from a 5D mark 3 and a 24 mm f/1.4 mark 2. I knew I wanted to do starry landscapes so I got the fastest 24 mm lens I could get.

[NacMacFeegle]

3.5 at the wide end actually. Thanks for the info regarding the low light benefits of faster apertures, I hadn't realized they made that much of a difference! Unfortunately I don't know how useful a 20 or 24mm lens would be for my 60D because of the crop sensor, but if I saved up and invested in a full frame body they'd be ideal. Here's my star trail photos from last night, taken with my 8mm lens, shot at an ISO of 200 and an F-stop of 8 in order to keep the images from being overexposed due to lights from the house. I could have turned off the Christmas lights, but I wanted them to paint the trees in the foreground:

The first two are just 10 minute exposures, however the first has some strange noise, gold speckles scattered thickly throughout the photo, while the second one does not. I suspect this was caused by the sensor overheating slightly in the earlier photo, while in the later one the camera was chilled by dropping temperatures. The third photo is a combination of 3 ten minute exposures, the fourth photo is a combination of 4 ten minute exposure, and the fifth is a combination of 8 ten minute exposures. Note that in the later two some clouds moved through, but I rather like the effect they created. Unfortunately I couldn't make a longer composite image because the last several photos were completely obscured by frost on the glass . I carefully dried the camera off afterwards and left it in a zip-lock bag with rice overnight to soak up any remaining moisture, and it's working perfectly today! However, I'm going to postpone future long exposure for a time when the temperature is above 32 degrees Fahrenheit . I used HDR pro in Photoshop to merge the exposures, and though it created kind of a weird effect it did a good job of selecting the sharpest parts from the various photos instead of the parts obscured by frost.

[kawi_200]

10min?? Or 10sec? If you are able to shoot 10min exposures my next suggestions is irrelevant I was going to say that you mention shooting at 30sec a lot but it sounds like you could benefit from getting a remote shutter trigger. That way you can use bulb mode and shoot much longer photos at a lower ISO to maintain some quality. If you are already able to shoot 10min then nevermind.

[NacMacFeegle]

I have the Magic Lantern firmware installed on my 60D. It allows me to do use a host of functions usually reserved for pro-level cameras. It can do exposures for as long as the battery last and will take shots at intervals until the memory card fills up! I also use the framerate override feature to take timelapse videos without having to stitch the pictures together (that's how I took the timelapse that I posted on the first page of this thread). It's not that hard to install, and it doesn't void the cameras warranty (though it can seem kind of scary when you first install it!).

[kawi_200]

That would do it I've thought about trying it out but it scares me a little. I might have to find an old cheap Rebel to learn on first. Like another XSi if I can find it for $100.

[NacMacFeegle]

It is scary! I drooled over the things it can do for a long time before I finally took the plunge. It's not as hazardous as it sounds, you just have to closely follow the directions (I can't remember the exact steps), and it opens up a stunning number of possibilities. I'm planning on eventually installing it onto my old SX200 point and shoot, but the batteries died permanently long ago and I haven't got around to ordering new ones. It's an excellent little camera and it would be a perfect for taking timelapses. Really there's no reason Canon couldn't build these functions into all their cameras; I assume it's withheld from cheaper cameras for marketing purposes.

[kawi_200]

I think it has to do with taxes and camera pricing. I know that they cannot make a camera shoot more than 30min of video or else it gets bumped up to some rediculously higher tax bracket. That would add cost to the camera and people wouldn't be able to buy it. Probably a similar reason why it is limited to 30sec shutter. If the ML goes wrong wouldn't the memory card be at more risk then the camera?

[NacMacFeegle]

Interesting, a tax based on video shooting length seems kind of strange, I looked it up and apparently it's a European tariff meant to offset the cost of people recording broadcast TV. I couldn't find any information about the taxes affecting long exposures, but I suppose they might. I tend to think that leaving features out of cheaper cameras has more to do with getting people to buy more expensive cameras than anything else. I don't think even the card is at risk of damage because of Magic Lantern, and even if something did go wrong you could always format it in a computer. I'd hate to give you advice on this and then have something unexpected go wrong, but I really don't think there is an appreciable risk to using magic lantern.

[Bedivere]

[Cyclopath]

The EU thing is pretty well-known, I thought. People were making a big deal about it on dpr when I bought my camera. I've never shot a video so it doesn't affect me. I have a cheap cable release, so I can do exposures longer than half a minute, and trip the shutter when I'm ready, instead of on a 2 or 10 second delay. Mirror lock-up is a hugely important feature on a quality landscape/starscape camera, and it works with the timer but I prefer the remote for this.

[Cyclopath]