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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostWed Mar 29, 2017 10:09 am 
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drm wrote:
I'm going to agree with Miss that in wilderness areas, wild animals should have a greater right to live than those of us who visit. We all have the right to breathe the air and live, but we are the ones who have compressed the wild lands available for most animals to live in by an enormous degree, except for those animals that thrive among us (most of which we hate, funny that - referring to rats, pigeons, and cockroaches, etc).

The thing is that the bears are already returning on their own. There apparently is an adequate migration route from them from regions where their populations are still healthy. It seems to me that almost everybody here (on nwhikers.net) who is opposed to us humans bringing them in wants to let them come on their own and be protected (and I'm not sure if that is true for people living next door).

So if they are coming in on their own, let them continue to do so. Let them self-select the individuals who want to migrate to a new area. It will be a healthier and more natural process in the sense of the ecological impact.

And if the threat of a mauling or death worries you, go recreate (or live) somewhere else. There are plenty of tame but pretty places to visit if that fits your needs.

From letters to the editor, and comments in newspapers, I'd say that the people who live next door to the area favor just leaving things alone and if the bears move in on their own, fine.  Many, and I are one, think that there are more bears than the experts find evidence of.  It's a big area to "study".  The other opinion frequently expressed is if bears are imported, dump them in the Puget Sound Area.  And, lest you think I am merely insulting the "city people" I am reporting what I read.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Dave Workman
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PostWed Mar 29, 2017 7:26 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
The other opinion frequently expressed is if bears are imported, dump them in the Puget Sound Area.  And, lest you think I am merely insulting the "city people" I am reporting what I read.

I've read that here and there also. It was the same with wolf reintroduction. A lot of people suspect some of the wolves now in Washington had help getting here.

It's amusing and disappointing at the same time that some people who favor this reintroduction have a sneering attitude about ranchers and farmers who actually live in or near the areas.
Learn to understand that the rancher has it all on the line. Raising cattle, on private or public land, can be a gamble, and it does nobody any good to simply dismiss their concerns as subordinate to your own.

Frankly, I have seen some people panic about the proximity of coyotes and even a bear or two in an urban residential environment. Suddenly, it's not somebody else's problem anymore.

TS, amend your suggestion. Dump them in the Puget Sound area...hungry. They will quickly wear out their welcome.  winksmile.gif

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostFri Mar 31, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Dave Workman wrote:
TS, amend your suggestion. Dump them in the Puget Sound area...hungry. They will quickly wear out their welcome.  :winksmile

I'd love to. It would be part of the Friends Of Seattle restoration plan.  But first we have to decommission I-5, other paved roads and the parking lots because we have to restore Seattle to pre-European settlement conditions.  Tribes of the area need to take charge.

Gotta get the vegetation restored and then bring in all the animals that used to inhabit the area.

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Ski
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Ski
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PostFri Mar 31, 2017 6:40 pm 
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^ Don't forget that you'll need to install bear-proof garbage receptacles everywhere too, like they have in downtown Juneau.

Because you know.... we don't have anything better to waste tax dollars on right now.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSat Apr 01, 2017 6:39 am 
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Everybody will be required to carry their lunches in bear proof containers, cuz we need more rules.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Tom_Sjolseth
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PostSun Apr 02, 2017 11:15 am 
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I'm sure the NPS will be happy to rent you a canister for a nominal fee...
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cdestroyer
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PostMon Apr 03, 2017 11:19 am 
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JACKSON, Wyo. (AP) — Grizzly bears continue to expand their range amid an ongoing effort to turn over management of the bears from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to the states of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho, a federal official said.

"We've seen an 11 percent change in increasing range in just a couple of years," Frank van Manen, head scientist of the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team, said last week at a meeting in Jackson.

Since coming under the protection of the Endangered Species Act, grizzlies have steadily expanded their habitat outward from the population's core in Yellowstone National Park.

The fringes of the grizzly range, van Manen said, are typically occupied by dispersing young boar bruins. Typically, he said, there's a multiyear lag before female bears will fill in territories already settled by males.

"Given what we've seen in the Wind River Range (with male bears), I wouldn't be surprised if females were close behind within a matter of five years," van Manen said.

The Wind River Range is located in west-central Wyoming, southeast of Yellowstone.

Van Manen anticipated continued expansion into the Wyoming Range, a livestock-dense landscape where he said bear conflicts with livestock and humans are inevitable.

"Bears are simply entering a landscape where the potential for conflict is greater," he said.

Twenty-seven percent of grizzly range within the region is now outside a "demographic monitoring area" where bear numbers are assessed annually.

The population of grizzlies within the monitoring area has fallen for two consecutive years, from about 750 animals to 690.

But van Manen noted that grizzly numbers outside the monitoring area are not counted and said he is confident the population is now at the highest point in decades.

"Since listing, there's no doubt that we are now at a point that we have the largest population size," he told the Jackson Hole News & Guide (http://bit.ly/2ojQzQN).

Center for Biological Diversity attorney Andrea Santarsieri said that he was concerned by the decline in grizzly numbers, and worried that hunting could soon occur near the Yellowstone and Grand Teton park boundaries if states gain management authority.

"We are made to believe that hunting and management are synonymous," Santarsieri said. "I would say that they're not. Agencies here are touting a recovered population, and we got where we are today without hunting."

A final rule to delist the Yellowstone-area grizzly bear as a federally protected endangered species will be released as early as June, federal officials said at the meeting.

___

Information from: Jackson Hole (Wyo.) News And Guide, http://www.jhnewsandguide.com
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Dave Workman
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PostFri Apr 14, 2017 12:26 pm 
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New from the Farm Bureau:

http://www.capitalpress.com/Livestock/20170413/farm-bureau-to-feds-dont-bring-griz-to-north-cascades

Farm Bureau to feds: Don’t bring griz to North Cascades

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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Kascadia
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Kascadia
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PostSun Apr 16, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Dave Workman wrote:
New from the Farm Bureau:

http://www.capitalpress.com/Livestock/20170413/farm-bureau-to-feds-dont-bring-griz-to-north-cascades

Farm Bureau to feds: Don’t bring griz to North Cascades

Love the picture they chose, LOL.
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drm
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drm
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PostSun Apr 16, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Dave Workman wrote:
New from the Farm Bureau:

http://www.capitalpress.com/Livestock/20170413/farm-bureau-to-feds-dont-bring-griz-to-north-cascades

Farm Bureau to feds: Don’t bring griz to North Cascades

That article says
Quote:
Since the agencies say grizzly bears are unlikely to return to Washington on their own
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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostMon Jun 12, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Here's video. I haven't bothered to check if it has been posted here.
https://youtu.be/g0YgKtDP0cw

Rumi

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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Chico
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PostTue Jun 13, 2017 1:36 pm 
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drm wrote:
That article says
Quote:
Since the agencies say grizzly bears are unlikely to return to Washington on their own


Since the bears know something about the habitat that we humans (or those wanting to bring them in), choose to ignore. Or perhaps we are so clueless when it comes to Mother Nature we simply can't read the signs.

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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostTue Jun 13, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Chico wrote:
drm wrote:
That article says
Quote:
Since the agencies say grizzly bears are unlikely to return to Washington on their own


Since the bears know something about the habitat that we humans (or those wanting to bring them in), choose to ignore. Or perhaps we are so clueless when it comes to Mother Nature we simply can't read the signs.

Or maybe we humans now know better how to properly manage species like the grizzly bear when reintroducing them to their former range. You know, like how we introduced hybridized domesticated cattle into areas they could not otherwise live naturally. Or perhaps we are so clueless about our own impact on the rest of nature we think that what we have now is the way it is supposed to be.

Rumi

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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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MtnGoat
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PostTue Jun 13, 2017 6:35 pm 
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If they show up on their own, great. If not, don't import problems.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Ski
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PostTue Jun 13, 2017 6:52 pm 
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.... still wondering how they support the claim that Grizzly Bears were living in the North Cascades 20,000 years ago when the Cordilleran Ice Sheet was still covering the entire northwest.

.... maybe they were ice-fishing bears?

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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