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JonnyQuest
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PostThu Apr 16, 2015 2:39 pm 
RH, I fully agree that wearing a drysuit enhances your margin of safety – no argument there. And yes, the combination of wind, waves, and shallow waters make for challenging conditions. I’m just suggesting that there’s a point at which one feels comfortable enough with conditions, environment, skills, group, etc. to forgo additional safety measures in exchange for enhanced comfort. As to where one draws that line, that’s a personal decision – hopefully based on an honest understanding of self, group, and the overall situation at hand. When I paddle to challenge myself, I certainly take safety measures that I often choose to forgo when I’m just paddling to go for an “on-water hike” well within my comfort zone. And in no way am I critiquing the Dungeness incident. As you mention, we don’t know the details. I’m not one to play armchair quarterback with such a situation - I lost a good paddling friend in 2008, and watched with amazement as some people threw deep without forethought. With the safety discussions that evolved on this thread, I just thought I’d share some of my thoughts and perspective on paddling.

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Navy salad
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PostFri Apr 17, 2015 10:53 pm 
joker wrote:
It won't magically make wearing a drysuit and insulating layers comfortable on a warm day, but a neck ring at least helps a bit
Hey, I've been paddling for decades and never heard of this until now! Good idea -- paddling in my dry suit (which I use in most ocean paddling) has always been the most uncomfortable part of kayaking.

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forest gnome
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PostSat Apr 18, 2015 7:02 am 
this had me thinking about SPEAKING THE HELL UP IN A GROUP SITUATION!!!! yes a plan to raft up the boats or SOMETHING discussed would of been good..before and after checking the forecast...beginner trips can go bad quickly,no matter how simple they seem... lets hope everyone else from that group takes the lessons from nw outdoor center and buys a drysuit....wow....not to mention radios...? also reminds me of a kayaking story of 2 guys paddling across up to a san-juan island...from town on w. end of hwy 20...one guy late with traffik from seattle...tides wrong...darkness... no radios...no towing-rescue class...they barely made it out w/one guy drifting to shore... me I would of called it and friggin car camped till the next day..but guess everyone has to stay on schedule....dam... and johnnyquest's post is correct ....all those factors are to be considered and planned outl....

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Snowbrushy
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PostSat Apr 18, 2015 9:18 am 
forest gnome wrote:
...wow....not to mention radios...?
Once my VHF radio went out so no more weather reports. I was in the BC San Juans on a 18ft runabout with cuddy cabin. I started an hourly watch of a Victoria AM radio station and found that they give really reliable local weather reports for the Straits, etc.. That was a small Radio Shack radio. It's important to monitor because conditions change fast.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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cascadetraverser
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 5:21 am 
I used to sea kayak alot in the 90s; mostly on the west coast of Vancouver Island in all sorts of conditions. Open water crossings, adverse weather and tidal currents were all part of the fear and fun of the sport. I was told once by the maker of my awesome kayak (Mariner Kayaks, btw), "if you dump you die," and that was something I took to heart and I fortunately never dumped (although there were a few times I thought I might!). I guess you can wear a dry suit all the time sea kayaking, but is that added safety benefit outweighed by the onerous excess heat and discomfort added by such a big suit? I don't know.... I also have to say, eskimo rolling in a loaded Sea Kayak is hard to do as compared to a river boat (I have successfully done the later many times, not the former once). These days, I prefer my adventures on dry land where I can watch my feet step one at a time on solid ground!! RIP to the poor souls who lost their lives....

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Ringangleclaw
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 10:47 am 
I remember (1997-98) when the kayak store at the Annacortes marina would have guided trips all the way out to Hat and Saddlebag Islands. About three miles each way, with a little bit of fetch. All that was required was paying the money, and hopping in a double with no thought to clothing or whatever. I was with one of these groups once, in a single, and we really got clobbered. I don't know how a rescue would have turned out, or if it was even possible given the incompetence of our guide. Not a situation I would be happy with if I owned the company.

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mike
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 11:24 am 
sh## happens to even the most fit and prepared. Lots of memorial benches out here and even a memorial triathlon.

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wolffie
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 11:52 am 
I have a sudden interest in sea kayaking, and zero gear or experience. Anybody with usable clothing/drysuit for sale (5'11" 165#) or advice about where ZI can learn (north Seattle) please PM me.

Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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Randito
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 6:21 pm 
cascadetraverser wrote:
I guess you can wear a dry suit all the time sea kayaking, but is that added safety benefit outweighed by the onerous excess heat and discomfort added by such a big suit?
Sounds like you've haven't worn a modern paddle sports drysuit. It's not like wearing a diving drysuit. The amount of insulation can be varied by how many layers you wear under the suit. On a sunny summer day, one may wear just a thin layer under the drysuit and not overheat topside. Once immersed even a thin layer of air between the body and the cold sea makes a huge difference in how long it takes to become incapacitated.

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Randito
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 6:28 pm 
wolffie wrote:
I have a sudden interest in sea kayaking, and zero gear or experience. Anybody with usable clothing/drysuit for sale (5'11" 165#) or advice about where ZI can learn (north Seattle) please PM me.
NRS has some on sale that one even has a "relief zipper" a feature that is certain to annoy the hell out of any female paddlers in your group.

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Snowbrushy
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PostMon Apr 20, 2015 7:23 pm 
wolffie wrote:
..or advice about where ZI can learn (north Seattle).
Do you have any salt water sound and bay experience in small craft? Here is Kayaking 101.
http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/meritbadges/kayaking-merit-badge.asp

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Token Civilian
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PostTue Apr 21, 2015 12:30 pm 
wolffie wrote:
I have a sudden interest in sea kayaking, and zero gear or experience. Anybody with usable clothing/drysuit for sale (5'11" 165#) or advice about where ZI can learn (north Seattle) please PM me.
Wolffie: Northwest Outdoor Center on Lake Union. http://www.nwoc.com/ Their Total Immersion Sea Kayaking course (TISK) is excellent. As for drysuits - the Kokatat suits come in male and female specific "relief" zipper configurations.....which makes it easy for the GF and I to know who's suit is who's.

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joker
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PostTue Apr 21, 2015 1:21 pm 
wolffie wrote:
advice about where ZI can learn (north Seattle)
Check out this outfit, run by the guy who wrote the first book that Randy linked to above (and when he wrote the book, he'd been the "safety editor" of Sea Kayaker magazine, including writing the accidents column. I did a 2 day workshop with him back in the late '90s and found it to be quite helpful in getting started, both in terms of understanding some of the technical/safety aspects of the sport (and boy it is a technical sport! more like mountaineering than hiking in that regard IMO) as well as learning things like paddling technique in such a way as to avoid RSI type problems. The workshop I did was run right off Matthews Beach.

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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Apr 21, 2015 2:48 pm 
To kayak you need to know most every thing you need to know to sail, in addition you need to know how to kayak.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Snowbrushy
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PostTue Apr 21, 2015 7:56 pm 
Once I bought a kayak. I've had a lifetime of boating with different boats and a canoeing merit badge. I took the kayak out once and only once at Port Townsend.
I found that the kayak is a totally different animal and that I have no business around one without proper instruction and practice especially out on the big water which is what I am interested in. I sold the boat within days.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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