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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
| Schroder wrote: | | Chico, BPJ & Snowbrushy - you're outraged by the cost? |
Schrod, actually I'm not bothered by the cost. I'd like to send a message. If you're not going to be prepared, and or competent in the out of doors your rescue is going to cost you. It shouldn't cost anyone else. As I said, if you're (we're) out there and get hurt, I have no problem helping with a rescue. If you re going to be incompetent, its going to cost you.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Chico
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Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 2500 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lacey |
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Chico
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 Thu May 21, 2015 11:22 am |
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| Schroder wrote: | | Chico, BPJ & Snowbrushy - you're outraged by the cost? |
Where in | Chico wrote: | | I can remember at least one story about a pair that called in asking for assistance as they were "too tired". |
does it say anything about being outraged by the cost?
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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Heartless assholes.
SAR is volunteer. Don't volunteer if you don't like it or join and try to change it from within.
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Schroder
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Thu May 21, 2015 5:35 pm |
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The original article posted by Snowbrushy, though lacking details & as poorly written as all articles on SAR missions, sounds like the people got in over their heads before they realized it and called for help to avoid injury. Perfectly reasonable and not uncommon. It's rare that it hits the news, though.
I've been on many similar missions, from the least experienced hikers to climbers on the middle of Exfoliation Dome who got stuck, exhausted and were unable to safely get down. Once we picked up a dog that was stuck on the North Peak of Mt Index.
If you charge the victims, who are you going to pay? Do you want paid professional rescue teams, and be required to take out an insurance policy if you leave your car?
(BTW, many insurance companies specifically exclude risky sports.)
How often does this topic come up here?
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Bernardo
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 2174 | TRs | Pics
Location: out and about in the world |
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Bernardo
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Thu May 21, 2015 6:58 pm |
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I appreciate your making the case Schroder.
All SAR people here seem to be against this idea.
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olderthanIusedtobe
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Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 7708 | TRs | Pics
Location: Shoreline |
| Bernardo wrote: | | I appreciate your making the case Schroder.
All SAR people here seem to be against this idea. |
You would think the people who aren't involved with SAR would listen to and value the opinion of the people who are involved in SAR on this issue...
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | Schroder wrote: | | Chico, BPJ & Snowbrushy - you're outraged by the cost? |
Schrod, actually I'm not bothered by the cost. I'd like to send a message. If you're not going to be prepared, and or competent in the out of doors your rescue is going to cost you. It shouldn't cost anyone else. As I said, if you're (we're) out there and get hurt, I have no problem helping with a rescue. If you re going to be incompetent, its going to cost you. |
How much would you charge for your "help"?
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| Schroder wrote: | | sounds like the people got in over their heads before they realized it and called for help to avoid injury. Perfectly reasonable and not uncommon. |
I have to wonder what kind of injury could happen on a slippery trail. A bruise? I assume that there was a possibility of someone slipping and falling off a steep area resulting in serious injury or death. The article should mention that.
And if that wasn't the case - why not at least a standard token $20.00 fee/donation? Just a thought.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
| hikersarenumber1 wrote: | | How much would you charge for your "help"? |
Whatever it costs!!! That said at the the same time Id suggest insurance covering such needs should people not feel comfortable in their back country abilities.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Snowbrushy
Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
Schroder, what do SAR folks really talk about at the pub after a questionable rescue mission? My reservation is only that you may get demoralized. What do you really say to each other about Ohio after a cold one at the bar?
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 7953 | TRs | Pics
Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Fri May 22, 2015 9:34 am |
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | If you re going to be incompetent, its going to cost you. |
Putting aside the concerns that SAR members have repeatedly expressed on the forum for a moment (i.e. that this will encourage lost and hurt folks to get more lost and perhaps more hurt, which will not only be worse for them but also require more time and risk on the part of the SAR crews), I'm intrigued to know how folks who buy BPJ's notion would decide who gets charged and who doesn't - i.e. who had required SAR due to incompetence? That guy that the state of NH charged because of past orthopedic issues despite the fact that his doctor gave him "clearance" to go hiking? Hey BPJ - what about someone who has been diagnosed by their doc has having insomnia, which many studies show has significant cognitive effects, including on both judgment and problem solving - key "competencies" that we use to avoid being lost or hurt and also for getting found or self-extracting if hurt? How will such a decision be made?
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| joker wrote: | | (i.e. that this will encourage lost and hurt folks to get more lost and perhaps more hurt, which will not only be worse for them but also require more time and risk on the part of the SAR crews) |
That's what SAR believes... A theory. Apparently not in Idaho. Idaho is just across the border, so, how can they believe so differently?
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri May 22, 2015 10:16 am |
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well, in the NH deal, obviously the judge knew more about the man's physical condition and capabilities than the man's doctor, right?
we should leave it up to judges like that, who in their infinite wisdom come up with gems like deeming an 80-year old tree "old growth".
yeah.
so... BPJ... who makes the call? who's the decider?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri May 22, 2015 10:17 am |
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| Snowbrushy wrote: | | Idaho is just across the border |
who gives a good goddam what they do in Idaho?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Snowbrushy
Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
Inquiring minds want to know, Ski. You are excused from the question. 
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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