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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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 Fri May 22, 2015 10:38 am |
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yeah?
so tell me, Snowbrushy: when's the last time anybody did anything in Idaho that made any difference anywhere else?
who cares what Idaho does?
that's the place where they re-elected Larry Craig over and over again.... what can you expect?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| Ski wrote: | | who cares what Idaho does? |
Who cares what Oregon does?
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Fri May 22, 2015 10:43 am |
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personally, I don't really care what Oregon does either. isn't Oregon the place where they still won't let you pump your own gas?
but what Idaho does makes even less difference.... so who cares?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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Anyone suggesting charging for rescue is absolutely stupid. SAR would then become professional and it would also become way more expensive.
People, all people who participate in outdoor activities would have to purchase rescue insurance. Insurance companies would profit.
And if you think it would be cheaper for all you "competent" climbers and backcountry skiers, think again.
Your run of the mill incompetent hiker gets lost or scared or tired or twists an ankle or gets cold or whatever.
That's cheap.
Your helicopter extractions and high angle rescues and avalanche debris searches are spendy and high risk.
And don't think the insurance company is going to say, well this guy posts multiple cool trip reports on NWhikers every year and his photography is excellent (not over saturated at all) therefore he knows what he's doing. He gets a lower rate.
Nope. A climber is a person climbing. Hell, they probably check your gear. A climber is a person with climbing gear.
Skier, a person with ski gear.
A hike where you slap on micros pikes to cross a snow field? Mountaineering.
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contour5
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Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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contour5
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Fri May 22, 2015 11:21 am |
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| Quote: | | People like THIS who have no business in the mountains SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR RESCUE! PERIOD! |
People like who? Ohioans? Women? Crampon-less un-trailworthy nincompoops in general?
I didn't really get a sense of the hikers' competence level from reading the article. They did have emergency satellite gear and were able to survive long enough get helped out.
It sounds like they were surprised by icy conditions.
So they lost the trail in snow, tried to self rescue and got in over their heads. Could happen to anybody. Even the rescuers considered the conditions hazardous enough to postpone walking them out.
Crampons and axes might have prevented them needing to be rescued. But they walked out from a ski area that's been closed all winter for lack of snow.
Overall, it sounds like they were reasonably competent and well prepared. They miscalculated on the snow cover, became lost and then got surprised by icy conditions for which they were not fully prepared.
There is really no test for hiker competence short of throwing yourself against the elements and recording the outcome.
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contour5
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Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 2963 | TRs | Pics
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contour5
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Fri May 22, 2015 11:24 am |
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| Quote: | | well this guy posts multiple cool trip reports on NWhikers every year and his photography is excellent (not over saturated at all) therefore he knows what he's doing. He gets a lower rate. |
Wait a minute, what?
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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And don't tell me about what they do in yrope.
Higher population density in mountains, less litigious society etc etc
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Chico
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Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 2500 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lacey |
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Chico
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Fri May 22, 2015 11:41 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | isn't Oregon the place where they still won't let you pump your own gas? |
Not knowing any different being from Washington where we pump our own, I've done so in Oregon.
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Windstorm
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Joined: 16 Dec 2014
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If SAR volunteers didn't think it was worth it, they wouldn't go out there to help people without payment. That said, I doubt they would turn down a donation if people felt so inclined. In fact, donating is probably a better use of money than lining the pockets of insurance companies.
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joker
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
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Fri May 22, 2015 2:14 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | who cares what Idaho does? |
Indeed. I very much enjoy visiting some good friends who live in CdA, ID. Let's just say that when they have worked at selling the notion of living there, the state and local politics never features in their pitch. In fact, when they consider moving to Spokane, where they both work, this is one of their motivations.
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hikersarenumber1
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| Windstorm wrote: | | If SAR volunteers didn't think it was worth it, they wouldn't go out there to help people without payment. That said, I doubt they would turn down a donation if people felt so inclined. In fact, donating is probably a better use of money than lining the pockets of insurance companies. |
I believe it has been said most rescued people do make donations. That is definitely the right thing to do. What's right and what is right to force people to do...two different things.
That other thread about risks and deaths on the mountains... do you want insurance companies weighing in on that?
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GrnXnham
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 363 | TRs | Pics
Location: Graham, WA |
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GrnXnham
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Sat May 23, 2015 6:14 pm |
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| Bernardo wrote: | | We don't know the details, but they couldn't have been that far from the trailhead given the short amount of time they were hiking. By being unable to walk back, they ended up having to wait all day and a good part of the night for a rescue.
I cringe though whenever anyone starts talking about charging for rescues. |
How about a co-pay kind of like a lot of people have with medical insurance? You call SAR, you pay the first $500 or something like that? This would cut down on the stupid "I'm tired. Come get me!" calls but if people were in serious danger, they would go ahead and bite the bullet because $500 usually beats dying!
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Snowbrushy
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
| hikersarenumber1 wrote: | | Your run of the mill incompetent hiker gets lost or scared or tired or twists an ankle or gets cold or whatever.
That's cheap. |
It IS cheap and perhaps later determined it be sooo cheap that it's more of a "training mission" than a "rescue mission". Therefore, a simple non-binding $20.00 donation is requested and will be mailed. PS Spread the word...
I'm a big fan of token gestures because they have worked for me in business. It's a token gesture and it seems to make fools think twice.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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| Snowbrushy wrote: | | It IS cheap and perhaps later determined it be sooo cheap that it's more of a "training mission" than a "rescue mission". Therefore, a simple non-binding $20.00 donation is requested and will be mailed. PS Spread the word...
I'm a big fan of token gestures because they have worked for me in business. It's a token gesture and it seems to make fools think twice. |
| GrnXnham wrote: | | How about a co-pay kind of like a lot of people have with medical insurance? You call SAR, you pay the first $500 or something like that? This would cut down on the stupid "I'm tired. Come get me!" calls but if people were in serious danger, they would go ahead and bite the bullet because $500 usually beats dying! |
Sounds like you want these more frequent, cheaper "unjustified" rescues that you deem to be caused by stupidity to subsidize your bigger, justified climbing rescues.
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Bernardo
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Bernardo
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Sun May 24, 2015 11:11 am |
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That's not how I read it. I understood that Snowbrushy believes it is good to help out people in need even if they "don't deserve it" (tone of other commentators) because it's just good to be and do good.
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