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Schroder
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PostThu May 24, 2018 12:31 pm 
A recent article on the usefulness of Permethrin:

Permethrin-Treated Clothing May Disable Ticks, Study Finds
CDC research suggests that wearing these items might stop the insects from biting you

Quote:
Now, a new study by CDC researchers has found that just a minute or two of contact with permethrin-treated clothing caused ticks to become incapacitated or fall off fabric.

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hbb
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PostFri May 25, 2018 11:35 am 
For what its worth, after looking over the respective MSDS's, it seems to me like the Sawyer spray contains roughly the same percentage of petroleum distillate that you'd end up with if you diluted the CSI/Martins 36.8% down to a 0.5% concentrate.

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DIYSteve
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PostFri May 25, 2018 4:55 pm 
Schroder wrote:
Permethrin-Treated Clothing May Disable Ticks, Study Finds
CDC research suggests that wearing these items might stop the insects from biting you

Quote:
Now, a new study by CDC researchers has found that just a minute or two of contact with permethrin-treated clothing caused ticks to become incapacitated or fall off fabric.


New study confirming longstanding conventional wisdom. People, including the US military, for years have used permethrin-treated clothing for tick bite prevention.

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Schenk
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PostTue May 29, 2018 1:15 pm 
I now have the Martin's 10% and I want to make about a gallon+ of 1% solution.
I am pretty sure I have this right, but if anyone wants to chime in and correct me:

So, to keep it simple, take 16oz of the 10% concentrate (1.6oz permethrin + 14.4oz carrier) and add 144 oz of water. That will give me 1.6oz of permethrin mixed into 158.4oz of carrier/water for a 1% concentrate, correct?

BTW: The odor is dramatically less with the Martins compared with the last stuff I used. Significantly less odor, and probably will be unnoticeable when it is dry. Thanks DIY Steve for mentioning this brand.

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hatchetation
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PostThu May 31, 2018 1:29 pm 
Yup - starting with a 10% concentrate by weight, that dilution will result in a 1% emulsion.

Another way to look at it - to dilute something by 10x, you're mixing one part concentrate to nine parts water. You could start with 12.8 oz of concentrate in a one-gallon jug, and just fill it the rest of the way with water to get a gallon of 1% solution.

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Schenk
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PostTue Jun 05, 2018 2:25 pm 
So I treated my clothes with the  diluted Martins (diluted to approx a 1.5% concentration) and once the clothes were dry I noticed very small elongated crystals on the clothing.
I noticed their glint when the sun shined on them.
Got out the reading glasses and sure enough; very small crystals, long, almost cylindrical (except for what I assumed was the faceted surface that reflected the light) were all over all the clothing.
After 1 washing most of them were gone, but a few remained.
I did not notice them when using a petroleum based permethrin product, but I might have missed them.
Anyone else notice or experience this?

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jstern
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PostSun Jul 15, 2018 7:24 pm 
I used the 10% Martin's and cut it to about 1.5%.  After treatment and letting the clothes dry, I also noticed the small crystals.
Did you wash the treated clothes before wearing?

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Schenk
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PostMon Jul 16, 2018 9:54 am 
Yes, I began with clean clothes too. It looked like the crystals were suspended in whatever Martin's uses as the carrier. I rinsed the clothes in the washing machine after treatment, and tumble died on "air only" and the crystals seemed to be removed/reduced.
I am a bit worried about what those little crystals are, and what they do when inhaled. It was obvious that they were not bonded to the fabric in any way and would continue to shed until they are all gone.
My guess is they are premethrin crystals, and it is being wasted because they simply fall off the clothing with physical action.
I hope my guess is wrong...but what else could they be?


I'll probably go back to the more stinky, but crystal free, petroleum based permethrin products after this. What ever martin's is using simply holds the permethrin in suspension, like water does. At least with the petroleum based products the permethrin is initially in a solution, and that is then held in suspension when you dilute with water...that's my thought anyway.

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boot up
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PostMon Jul 16, 2018 10:05 am 
Maybe I missed it in the description, but are the people having the crystals show up soaking the clothes in a pail of solution or spraying the clothing until damp?

I have not had any signs of crystal formation, but I just spray until damp. (wearing a respirator mask)

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Schenk
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PostMon Jul 16, 2018 10:56 am 
More info:
I sprayed my clothes, but the sprayer nozzle itself clogged with these crystals. Upon examination I could see a "cloud" of of these crystals in the suspension/solution I made (0% Martins, diluted with water to approx 1.5%) I would shake my sprayer but the crystals were heavier than water and sank to the bottom and were sucked up by the tube of the sprayer to the point of clogging the small sprayer head every couple minutes.
I also took some of my clothes and immersed them in the same solution with essentially the same result: the cloudy solution left crystals on the clothes.
In both cases you could see the crystals glint in the sunlight before the clothes dried.

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Schenk
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PostMon Jul 16, 2018 11:02 am 
Found this. apparently permethrin can be in crystalline form:
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/archive/Permtech.html

I also found one source that said it was soluble in alcohol (methanol, 300gr/L)...maybe it is better to dilute in alcohol before spraying or soaking clothes with it:
http://www.wefco-africa.co.za/userfiles/All%20Labels/Permethrin.pdf

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jstern
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PostTue Jul 17, 2018 6:33 pm 
I ran my clothes through the wash, and then let them hang dry.  No noticeable crystals.  But, I'll have to keep an eye on the sprayer to see if it clogs up.
Thanks for the links!

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"Adventure is just bad planning." - Roald Amundsen
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zimmertr
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PostFri Jun 28, 2019 11:23 am 
Hi all, can anyone here share any anecdotes about their permethrin use if they have cats? I bought some a couple years ago and I carry it in my car for hiking/camping but I'm always scared to treat my tent/clothes with it out of fear of poisoning my little girl if she sniffs around my closet at home when I return.

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Brushwork
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PostFri Jun 28, 2019 8:40 pm 
Once itís dry, it shouldnít be toxic to cats.  Think thereís something about that earlier in this post.  Personally, I might hang or keep clothing that iíve treated separate from other clothes.

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Adohrn
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PostSat Jun 29, 2019 9:48 pm 
Once dry is perfectly safe.   With 3 cats I try to be extra cautious.    I keep the concentrate in the garage in a sealed tub and padded so if the tub gets knocked around it wonít fall over and leak.  I also let the treated cloths dry outside for 24 hours and donít let the cats out that day.  After treatment strip and shower taking cloths I was wearing outside with the treated stuff

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