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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Jul 07, 2017 4:56 pm 
Phosmet has little in common with permethrin, it is an organophosphate insecticide which interferes with acetylcholine with more in common with malathion or parathion. Permethrin is an entirely different class of compounds.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge



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DIYSteve
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PostFri Jul 07, 2017 7:28 pm 
Oh, okay. I cited a bad source. I deleted that.

Permethrin is a pyrethroid, a class of organic compounds similar to the natural pyrethrins produced by the flowers of pyrethrums (Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium and C. coccineum). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid

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kbatku
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PostSat Jul 08, 2017 12:31 pm 
I got a pint for like $11 on Amazon - I still have 15 oz left. Works like a charm, though I do retreat after washing.  I put on rubber gloves and a mask, spritz the clothes outside and then seal them in a plastic bag for a few hours to let them stew.  Then I thoroughly air them out, put them on and away I go.  Doesn't eliminate the need for deet on exposed skin, but keeps the bugs from biting through my clothes.  Treat your hat and head net too.

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Navy salad
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Navy salad
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PostThu Jul 13, 2017 1:28 pm 
kbatku: Good idea about letting them "stew" in a plastic bag to give the liquid more time to soak in. I'm going to try that next time.

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Yoyo
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PostThu Jul 13, 2017 9:43 pm 
I'm new here, but have been lurking for awhile. Writing to comment on permethrin products, particularly something I found at the local feed store:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-permethrin-10-livestock-premise-spray-8-fl-oz

The stuff contains some type of petroleum products that mix with water to a milky consistency and leave a nasty odor on your clothes if you apply it.

I've just gotten through applying it to some junk clothes, in the hope that after a trip through the wash the smell would be gone, but the permethrin still useful. Haven't worn them yet but after a wash the odor is still detectable.

I can't recommend this stuff, in fact can't see what you would use it for that wouldn't be compromised by the hydrocarbons.

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Adohrn
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PostFri Jul 14, 2017 9:52 am 
There are 2 versions,  oil or water based. You have the oil based which is to be avoided as it does have a very strong and unpleasant smell.  Try the water based Martins.

http://www.amazon.com/Martins-Permethrin-10%25-Indoor-Outdoor/dp/B001EVKCKM?tag=nwhinet-20

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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



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boot up
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PostFri Jul 14, 2017 9:42 pm 
Yoyo wrote:
I've just gotten through applying it to some junk clothes,

In addition to type of product, as mentioned, what concentration are you using?
It takes a tiny bit of this stuff in a large amount of water to work.

If you are using it full strength or high strength, that might also be part of your problem.

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Navy salad
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Navy salad
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PostFri Jul 21, 2017 12:14 pm 
Yoyo wrote:
The stuff contains some type of petroleum products that mix with water to a milky consistency and leave a nasty odor on your clothes if you apply it.

I've just gotten through applying it to some junk clothes, in the hope that after a trip through the wash the smell would be gone, but the permethrin still useful. Haven't worn them yet but after a wash the odor is still detectable.

I use the Martin's 36.8% permethrin:
(URL = link)

Even though it does contain petroleum distillates, after diluting it (1 tablespoon to 12 ounces of water), spraying the clothes and letting it dry thoroughly, I can not detect any odor whatsoever. This is without washing the clothes afterward, but merely letting them dry outside.

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Yoyo
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PostSun Jul 23, 2017 5:32 pm 
Sorry for late reply, didn't catch your comment when it was fresh.

I mixed the 10% concentration of the packaged product down to 1.5% as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Having had a chance to let the clothes sit around for a week, run them through the wash with almost no detergent, then again with a normal amount of detergent, this stuff is useless. The clothes still smell like naptha or something similar, and now have questionable repellant qualities.

I hate buying online but it seems it will be necessary this time.

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Schenk
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Schenk
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PostMon Jul 24, 2017 7:55 am 
The first time I used permetrhin I bought the solvent based stuff. My treated clothes did have a strong odor but I aired them on the clothesline for a couple nights (I guess sunlight is a contributing factor to the life of permethrin on clothing?) and afterwards they did not noticeably smell. The petroleum "carrier" has to evaporate and washing in water may not help enough.

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contour5
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PostMon Aug 07, 2017 11:02 pm 
Been using the Sawyer aerosol can  product for a year or so. Thought it was working fine until recent trip up the Sauk. All my clothes were freshly treated a couple days before the trip. Shortly after taking a break about halfway up the trail I felt a sharp biting sensation on my back. I reached back over my shoulder, felt something, and grabbed it. A nasty little tick, wiggling its nasty little legs and mouth parts at me! I just sort of involuntarily crushed it between thumb and forefinger, revealing a drop of blood.

I sat down to eat on a nice flat rock on a high grassy saddle. Saw a tick running up my leg. Flicked it off. Looked down where it went- whoa! Ticks crawling all over the place. There were twenty or thirty of them crawling around on the rock. I played a weird game with them, making them follow my hand around. If I put my hand on the rock, they would all move toward it. when I lifted it- just a few inches- they would seem confused and wander randomly. Placing hand back on rock would attract all of them again, instantly. Really creepy and weird!

I've never seen so many ticks in the cascades before. I saw more ticks on this trip than I've seen in the last 15 years.

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Kat
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PostTue Aug 08, 2017 4:44 am 
That is sick.  paranoid.gif  I turn myself into a chemical factory, permethrin treated clothing (once every 6 weeks) and deet on top of it. Just picked up another 24 oz bottle of P at REI for $16 for the retreat today.

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InFlight
coated in DEET



Joined: 20 May 2015
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InFlight
coated in DEET
PostTue Aug 08, 2017 8:58 am 
Ticks apparently don't have vision, but can sense heat, smell, as well as CO2. (Haller's organs)  So they were obviously attracted to the heat signature of your finger.

The Northern Cascades seems to have a higher density of ticks.  Ross Lake is crawling with them.

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I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...  ― Henry David Thoreau
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Navy salad
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Navy salad
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PostSat Aug 12, 2017 1:44 pm 
After wearing my permethrin-treated shirt on a hot, hard hike where I found myself sweating profusely, I couldn't help but wonder if the Permethrin-that-is-perfectly-safe-after-it-dries can partially re-liquify when it gets drenched with sweat and become no longer safe?

Probably a question for a chemist/pharmacist or other specialist, but feel free to chime in.

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graywolf
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PostSun Aug 13, 2017 8:04 pm 
Navy salad wrote:
After wearing my permethrin-treated shirt on a hot, hard hike where I found myself sweating profusely, I couldn't help but wonder if the Permethrin-that-is-perfectly-safe-after-it-dries can partially re-liquify when it gets drenched with sweat and become no longer safe?

Probably a question for a chemist/pharmacist or other specialist, but feel free to chime in.

Permethrin is soluble in organic compounds, but not water, which is why you need to shake it when you're applying it to your clothing (it's not a true solution).  Your sweat is mainly water, sodium, potassium, chloride and some minerals, so the likelihood of it re-liquefying the permethrin is very unlikely.

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