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UPDATED TERMS (9/3/2020)
It is disheartening to see this site transform from what was once a positive, fun, spirit filled community to one more often than not dominated by contentious discussion and negativity. In light of this we are going to implement a stricter posting standard. Call it the family rule. Treat this community as you would your family. Give others the benefit of the doubt. Be constructive if raising a valid criticism. Check your negativity at the door. If you have an issue with something in a trip report send a private message intead of calling someone out publicly. Treat others as you would like to be treated. If you just come here to argue, please don't. The bar on the internet may be low, but it really isn't hard to be nice. If you bring negativity to the forum you will be asked to leave. This site won't be going away any time soon, but we can do better. Thanks to the all who have stuck around through the thick and thin and made this site the valued resource it is today, and for many years to come.
I will be adding a pop up prompt such that posting will be restricted until these updated terms are read and agreed to.
Wiki summmary last edited by Tom on Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:36 pm (this post can be edited by any member) |
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 16545 | TRs
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| The thread drift debating the societal cause/effect was pseudo political and not hiking related and thus off limits in trail talk regardless of how civil. The thread served its purpose to alert users to theft/vandalism at the Dickerman trailhead. |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1165 | TRs
Location: Seattle
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You're strict, Tom, but right. 
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"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood |
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Bernardo
Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 2098 | TRs
Location: out and about in the world
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Well, this thread led me to the break-in thread that I might have missed so thanks for that.
I'd have to agree that while that discussion was interesting, it was definitely political. Not really a close call in my view.
I wonder if people at the social discussed human nature and how to optimize social interactions like we have here at NWHikers which quickly get rough? |
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 16545 | TRs
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Hard to say since those those with a proclivity to discuss the finer details don't seem to have the time to show up to the socials.  |
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Bernardo
Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 2098 | TRs
Location: out and about in the world
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| It's hard for us hiking bots to take physical form. |
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Chief Joseph
Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 5536 | TRs
Location: What Verlot Forgot.
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| Bernardo wrote: |
| I wonder if people at the social discussed human nature and how to optimize social interactions like we have here at NWHikers which quickly get rough? |
Imo, they are way different in person, but of course they were busy eating, drinking, and being merry. I used to battle some with big Steve and I found him to be a very nice guy when I met at a social about 3 years ago. Even Tom was no where near the big, scary guy that I pictured in my mind. 
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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. |
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Brushwork
Food truck
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Posts: 508 | TRs
Location: Washington
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| Bernardo wrote: |
| It's hard for us hiking bots to take physical form. |
You got that right ....!
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When I grow up I wanna play. |
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
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Since when was there an expectation that discussion wouldn't be 'endless'?
What are the *specifics* of the metrics used as to who is supposed to be satisfied by a discussion, or how long an argument is 'endless', or what 'value' is?
To me, the 'me too choir' adds zero value. Especially when it's basis is people who complain that a topic doesn't go their way, and think that shutting down a conversation, even ones in which which no one is attacked.... is a good approach to 'community'. Steering topics is what editorialists do, not people interested in actual conversation or 'value'.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers |
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neek
Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 1361 | TRs
Location: Seattle, WA
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| MtnGoat wrote: |
| Since when was there an expectation that discussion wouldn't be 'endless'? |
There's a difference between actual discussion (where there's a sense of progress), and just playing games. In chess, after 3 repetitions it's a draw.
| MtnGoat wrote: |
| To me, the 'me too choir' adds zero value. |
Same here. |
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Brian R
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018
Posts: 335 | TRs
Location: Fircrest WA
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| MtnGoat wrote: |
Since when was there an expectation that discussion wouldn't be 'endless'?
What are the *specifics* of the metrics used as to who is supposed to be satisfied by a discussion, or how long an argument is 'endless', or what 'value' is?
To me, the 'me too choir' adds zero value. Especially when it's basis is people who complain that a topic doesn't go their way, and think that shutting down a conversation, even ones in which which no one is attacked.... is a good approach to 'community'. Steering topics is what editorialists do, not people interested in actual conversation or 'value'. |
Well said. It seemed to me the entire thread was on-topic, with valid points on all sides. God forbid, anyone make elitists uncomfortable with talk of, ummm, elitism. There is a thick vein of it that runs through American wilderness history going back to the 1920s at least. It seems it ought to be discussed--and the Middle Fork Snoqualmie issue is (was) a perfect intersect. |
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 11292 | TRs
Location: tacoma
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Thanks for locking the other thread, Tom.
Maybe a few more thread locks might convey a much-needed message to a few players here who are hellbent on perpetuating arguments for arguments sake.
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each." |
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Brian R
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018
Posts: 335 | TRs
Location: Fircrest WA
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Priceless coming from you, Ski. 
Tom, kind of an eye-opener here. It seems what you've created is a de-facto private club. A sort of bobble-head progressive dinner party. On one hand, I can appreciate efforts to limit non-outdoor political discussion. On the other, I have rarely encountered someone with sensibilities as delicate as yours. It truly does seem to me when a discussion, even a civil one, doesn't comport with your world view, you simply shut it down. Completely your privilege, yes--but not a club I want to participate in.
Enjoy the limited little world you are creating. I'm out. |
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Malachai Constant
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 14780 | TRs
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
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Don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out.
How about we talk about hiking, post pretty pictures, help out newbies, cook good food, give useful links, talk about threatened areas, help each other hike, find partners, and just get along. Toss this political shiz where it belongs.
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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn |
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12000 | TRs
Location: Lyle, WA
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Seeing everything one disagrees with as political, is evidence the observer is the politics.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1165 | TRs
Location: Seattle
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| Mtn Goat wrote: |
| What are the *specifics* of the metrics used as to who is supposed to be satisfied by a discussion, or how long an argument is 'endless', or what 'value' is? |
| Brian R wrote: |
| It seems what you've created is a de-facto private club. A sort of bobble-head progressive dinner party. On one hand, I can appreciate efforts to limit non-outdoor political discussion. On the other, I have rarely encountered someone with sensibilities as delicate as yours. It truly does seem to me when a discussion, even a civil one, doesn't comport with your world view, you simply shut it down. Completely your privilege, yes--but not a club I want to participate in. |
Actually, there are 3 NWH moderators; two of us are a little more shadowy. Bringing me onboard a couple years ago was the idea of moderator #2, for specific reasons, one being to add gender balance that was lost when the last female moderator left the territory (or something like that). I've preferred to alert Tom when I think something should be locked; it hasn't happened often, and at least a couple times he's said, "No, it's OK."
I think Tom's been pretty tolerant when we go off on tangents. I get his objection to endless digressions when they become unproductive, especially if the individuals debating don't participate much in other areas that are the whole point of the NWH's existence. The topical bandwidth and various personalities I've come to "know" keep me engaged here. NWH is pretty exemplary when it comes to fostering a sense of community. Given some of the stuff that gets flung around here, no one can honestly say Tom is intolerant of our "eccentricities"
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"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood |
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