[treeswarper]

[JPH]

[Snowbrushy]

[Ski]

Thursday March 23, 2017 09:27 PDT Dear Interested Party: The Chelan & Entiat Ranger Districts of the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest are seeking public input on the proposed 2014-15 Wildfire Restoration Project located in Chelan County. The project area covers approximately 3,200 acres within the 2014 Duncan, and the 2015 Wolverine and Black Canyon Wildfire areas. Project Description The purpose of this Project is to plant conifers and speed recovery time for developing a forested landscape. Benefiting Resources include: Wildlife-Establish forested areas for species dependent on conifer habitat, Hydrology-Contribute to long term slope stability, Recreation-Improve campsite screening and shading with fire resilient tree species. Additional information is available at: http://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=51396 or by contacting the project leader-Pete Wier, pwier@fs.fed.us How to Comment Your comments will aid the District team in identifying potential issues and concerns with this project proposal. Comments will be most useful if received by April 17, 2017. Write a letter to the Forest Service and mail it to the project leader: Pete Wier Or hand-deliver it to: Chelan Ranger District Chelan Ranger District 428 West Woodin Ave 428 West Woodin Ave Chelan, WA 98816 Chelan, WA 98816 Send an e-mail to the Project Leader at: comments-pacificnorthwest-wenatchee-chelan@fs.fed.us For further information regarding this project contact Pete Wier, Silviculturist 509-682-4943, pwier@fs.fed.us 428 West Woodin Ave, Chelan, WA 98816. For further information on the project, please contact Pete Wier at (509) 682-4943. Sincerely, Kari Grover Wier District Ranger Forest Service Chelan Ranger District, Okanogan-Wenatchee NF p: 509-682-4900 c: 509-699-1447 kgroverwier@fs.fed.us 428 W. Woodin Ave.Chelan, WA 98816www.fs.fed.us

[Chico]

[Ski]

^ I would think that when you put people of like minds and interests together in a working environment there will inevitably be some degree of "office romance". There have been several husband/wife teams employed at various NPS facilities, none of which (to my knowledge) have caused anything that could be construed to be "problems". It should come as no surprise that it would happen at NFS (or anywhere else, for that matter.) But back to the issue at hand: Wasn't the "Wolverine Fire" one of those that consumed large tracts of "designated wilderness"? If that's the case, do we really want to go in and effect remedial action in a designated wilderness area? Isn't the objective in those areas to "let nature take its course"? I haven't looked yet at the particulars on this project; that email just arrived this morning. Maybe they're just talking about areas that are not "designated wilderness".

[Chico]

Wolverine, yes. Glacier Peak Wilderness. See https://mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=48.111099,-120.454102&z=11&t=t1&q=http://capitolriders.org/KMZ/Glacier_PeakWilderness.kml Pink/purple is the wilderness boundary. Red is of course trails.

[Ski]

I put in an inquiry to clarify that. If it is indeed "designated wilderness", then it stands to reason they should just leave it alone. Isn't the the whole point of "wilderness"? Seems to me the big "pro wilderness" proponents here are all for the "hands off" approach; "let nature take its own course" and all that stuff. Why the need for such a project in a designated wilderness area?

[treeswarper]

[Ski]

Response received from Peter Wier, Silviculturalist on project 03/24/17 06:43 PDT: Is ANY of the project area within any “designated wilderness” areas? · No planting is proposed within designated wilderness area Are the predominant natural species on these project sites the same as those you intend to replant? · We would plant primarily early seral tree species and /or those that are more resilient to wildfire. There are some instances where the proposed species for planting was not the predominate species on the site prior to the wildfire, but was a component of the stand. If I am understanding the language in the scoping documents I just received, at least part of the project area was subjected to intensive fire damage in the form of soil sterilization. Is that correct? · Some damage to the soils did occur. This project utilized the BARC imagery to help determine areas of high vegetation mortality. Planting these areas will contribute to the recovery of the damaged soils.

[KekistaniProphet]

The floods coming out of the Entiat have that nasty brown/black/grey ash color. Slightly less so than last years though!

[Ski]

^ Well, you're going to have some degree of sediment enter tributaries and rivers when all of the ground cover vegetation has been burned off and the soil has been sterilized, leaving behind essentially nothing but burned dust. I spoke with Mr. Wier on the phone after I received his email and asked him about ground cover flora. He told me that just in the past year some small perennial shrubs have pioneered in those burned areas, and hopefully that should (over time) mitigate the issue of soil erosion. They do not have any plans to provide nature any form of assistance in that regard, relying instead on the native understory vegetation to recover on its own. In and of itself, the tree planting should expedite the process of recovery. I don't see any reasons at all why this project should not proceed.

[Chico]

In 1977 I worked out of he Chelan Ranger District on timber seedling survival surveys on the east side of the lake. This after the big fires in the early 70's. Not sure when the planting was done but seedlings were all small. No wilderness to contend with.

[treeswarper]

I am curious whether the people in charge are aware of the existence of seed orchards? Starting in the 1970s the FS was choosing genetically superior trees out in the woods. Besides growing well and having good characteristics, the trees needed to be close to roads. They were chosen at different elevations. You may still see them, they'll have a metal band around them, a sign, numbered tag and maybe a painted plus sign and number on them. Cones were taken from these trees and seedlings started. The seedlings were planted and some even grafted, in fenced, cleared areas. I do know that one was still being cared for in the 1990s on the Tonasket District, but I think everybody who knew about it has retired or moved away. There are not a lot of foresters in the Forest Service anymore. Maybe their seed orchards burned up? We have two orchards here--the low elevation one is along the Cispus River and the high elevation (lots of Noble Fir) is up on Greenhorn Butte. They are now bearing cones.

[Billoutwest]

Parts of the fires are in Wilderness and portions of the Wolverine are in the National Recreation area. However, many acres are not and that is what is being looked at for this management proposal.

One possible point of confusion is the Black Canyon fire apparently started out in Wilderness but became much larger and the final perimeter includes a lot in the way of non-Wilderness areas that are roaded. When dealing with these larger fires in the modern era I would suggest that in most cases one could assume that these fires will usually include a variety of management areas. They burn where they please.