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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
| Tom_Sjolseth wrote: | | Tom wrote: | | ...to see if they shortened it to generate more revenue.. |
It's not about revenue, it's all about safety.. |
Yeah, just like the fee HOV lanes on 405 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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Location: United States |
| boot up wrote: | | Tom_Sjolseth wrote: | | Tom wrote: | | ...to see if they shortened it to generate more revenue.. |
It's not about revenue, it's all about safety.. |
you forgot to add the smiley face to your joke. |
I think it the original intent is usually safety, but that the system is easily corrupted into a revenue stream. There need to be more rules governing how they are managed. Also, reducing fees from traffic cameras might decrease the temptation to leverage them for additional revenue.
I think it's important to realize that part of the instigation for local governments to corrupt traffic cameras for revenue purposes is that many are struggling to raise the funds they need. If we raised taxes to better fund the government it's possible that officials might be less inclined to exploit things like traffic cameras for extra funds.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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 Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:35 pm |
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What a bunch of whining... You knuckleheads talk like it is your right to drive down any road at 10mph over the speed limit and if you have to apply your brakes to avoid hitting other cars, cyclists or school children its a crime against humanity...
When you get behind the wheel its your responsibility to avoid hitting and killing others. Operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. Grow the f up.
Using cameras/robots to that make it easy for the city to collect revenue for aggressive/careless drivers is OK by me.
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Tom
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Tom
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:18 pm |
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Must have been a 15 mph school zone in the OP was driving 10 over?
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moonspots
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:09 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | If we raised taxes to better fund the government it's possible that officials might be less inclined to exploit things like traffic cameras for extra funds. |
Never happen. Once they're addicted, it's game over. And no, it's not about "safety", although that's the line that's set, and bitten on by the general public.
And, I'd be willing to bet that the ticketed "offense" occurred outside regular school hours. If so, that furthers my argument.
I have no respect for traffic cameras or their operators, suppliers, administrators. It's government run amuck, and needs to be reigned in.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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flatsqwerl
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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Location: tacoma |
RandyHiker, I'm sure your first feeling upon receiving a 140$ ticket for going 3 over in a 20 will be: " ahhh, it feels good to give back to the community " 
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AlpineRose
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What part of "speed limit" do some folks not understand?
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
| RandyHiker wrote: | | What a bunch of whining... You knuckleheads talk like it is your right to drive down any road at 10mph over the speed limit and if you have to apply your brakes to avoid hitting other cars, cyclists or school children its a crime against humanity...
When you get behind the wheel its your responsibility to avoid hitting and killing others. Operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. Grow the f up.
Using cameras/robots to that make it easy for the city to collect revenue for aggressive/careless drivers is OK by me. |
In general I agree; people shouldn't be driving very far beyond the posted limit and those who break traffic laws should be ticketed for it. However, I also believe that a margin of error should be allowed for - going a few mph over the limit, slightly mistiming a yellow, these are the sort of simple and often accidental infractions that should be allowed a little bit of slack.
| moonspots wrote: | | NacMacFeegle wrote: | | If we raised taxes to better fund the government it's possible that officials might be less inclined to exploit things like traffic cameras for extra funds. |
Never happen. Once they're addicted, it's game over. And no, it's not about "safety", although that's the line that's set, and bitten on by the general public. |
I don't think there's any way to prove if increasing government fund via taxes would or would not decrease their exploitation of ticketing as a revenue source. However, I think it is fairly obvious and proven that traffic cameras do encourage people to obey the law.
| moonspots wrote: | | And, I'd be willing to bet that the ticketed "offense" occurred outside regular school hours. If so, that furthers my argument. |
It would if it were true, but what evidence do you have of this?
| moonspots wrote: | | I have no respect for traffic cameras or their operators, suppliers, administrators. It's government run amuck, and needs to be reigned in. |
Whenever I see someone use phrases like "government run amuck" I am more likely to disregard their argument. Such phrases stinks of fox news propaganda. "poorly managed" is a phrase that I think better describes the situation, these systems are (relatively) new, and we are still laying the groundwork for their implementation and oversight. As with so many issues, I think we would do well to look to Europe as to how to deal with the problems we face with traffic cameras.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:10 pm |
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| flatsqwerl wrote: | | RandyHiker, I'm sure your first feeling upon receiving a 140$ ticket for going 3 over in a 20 will be: " ahhh, it feels good to give back to the community " |
My wife got one of those for whizzing through school zone at 35 (normal speed limit 30, kids present 20) we paid it, I think it was $240.
She drives with a bit more awareness of school zones
Better a ticket than a injured or dead kid. When I was in my 20s I hit a dog and killed it, I drive more carefully now.
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tigermn
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tigermn
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:59 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | If we raised taxes to better fund the government it's possible that officials might be less inclined to exploit things like traffic cameras for extra funds. |
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard...
If the government learned how to properly spend the enormous amount of money they already are receiving we wouldn't have any of these problems....
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:42 pm |
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| tigermn wrote: | | That's the stupidest thing I ever heard...
If the government learned how to properly spend the enormous amount of money they already are receiving we wouldn't have any of these problems.... |
Another one of those myths promulgated by the 1% to dupe ordinary folks in to opposing effective government.
I've seen how both government agencies and private businesses spent money and businesses are far more willing to spend money frivolously.
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Tom
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Tom
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:23 pm |
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Interesting article: http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-cities-hit-brakes-red-light-cameras.html
Seems pretty clear to me that city budgets depend on the revenue stream. While more cost efficient to generate revenue vs. writing tickets the old fashion way it begs the question about the motivations for these cameras. I would argue it should be cost neutral. In other words reduce fines to the levels where no extra revenue is generated versus no installation so that there is no misalignment of incentives. Of course this will never happen because the motivation is to generate extra revenue.
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Cities commonly contract the red light cameras to a private company. The companies take a substantial fee for this service. I do not like subcontracting law enforcement to privat companies. 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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Location: United States |
| Malachai Constant wrote: | | Cities commonly contract the red light cameras to a private company. The companies take a substantial fee for this service. I do not like subcontracting law enforcement to privat companies. |
 Privatization is rarely as great as it is often made out to be. Robocop should have taught people that lol! It makes things that were previously non-profit into a for-profit industry, and opens the door for all kinds of devious money-making schemes. The advantages of privatization are yet another kind of propaganda fed to us by the rich.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:19 pm |
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| Tom wrote: | | Interesting article: http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-cities-hit-brakes-red-light-cameras.html
Seems pretty clear to me that city budgets depend on the revenue stream. While more cost efficient to generate revenue vs. writing tickets the old fashion way it begs the question about the motivations for these cameras. I would argue it should be cost neutral. In other words reduce fines to the levels where no extra revenue is generated versus no installation so that there is no misalignment of incentives. Of course this will never happen because the motivation is to generate extra revenue. |
This is just more nonsense based on the false premise that government has no business collecting revenues and also using that to express social policy.
All this is based on whining by the OP that they are too important to be bothered with paying attention enough while driving to notice a school zone and slow down so they don't kill someone's kid.
Typically advocates of smaller government also espouse the importance of personal responsibility.
Where is the OP taking responsibility for driving carelessly and inattentively? No its all whining about being the victim of of big bad government.
Watch where the f you are driving and don't blame the government for actually enforcing the law.
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