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Snowbrushy
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PostTue Dec 08, 2015 7:56 pm 
This is an article about dogs on National Park trails who are pretend service dogs. http://www.hcn.org/articles/leave-your-dog-at-home-please?utm_source=wcn1&utm_medium=email

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Randito
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PostTue Dec 08, 2015 8:37 pm 
The son of a friend of mine tried the "service dog" vest approach in ONP last summer -- when the ranger saw his dog straining at his leash -- Said "yeah that dog's not a trained service dog". People abusing the ADA to bring their pet does a disservice to the legit folks that rely on their service animals.

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cascadeclimber
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PostTue Dec 08, 2015 8:45 pm 
Dog owner narcissism abounds. I do not understand the way *some* thoughtlessly rationalize wrecking the experience of others for their small, selfish purposes. frown.gif

If not now, when?
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tigermn
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 9:58 am 
I was coming down the Stuart Lake trail once. A dog was running up the trail without it's owner.. Must have been a good 1/4 mile ahead. Finally the people caught up and I saw them.. They said "service dog" Yea right... Last I checked service dogs don't run loose 1/4 mile ahead of their masters.... Of course no dogs are allowed on that trail (except I guess real service dogs). If that was a service dog, I have a mountain chalet for sale in the Florida Everglades...

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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 12:18 pm 
tigermn wrote:
Of course no dogs are allowed on that trail (except I guess real service dogs).
The horsepeople have their own trail association. Why don't the dogpeople have their own association? They could educate and advocate.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 12:27 pm 
RandyHiker wrote:
The son of a friend of mine tried the "service dog" vest approach in ONP last summer -- when the ranger saw his dog straining at his leash -- Said "yeah that dog's not a trained service dog".
You saw a park ranger suspect people of committing an obvious crime. What happened next?

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Randito
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 1:01 pm 
Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
The son of a friend of mine tried the "service dog" vest approach in ONP last summer -- when the ranger saw his dog straining at his leash -- Said "yeah that dog's not a trained service dog".
You saw a park ranger suspect people of committing an obvious crime. What happened next?
I wasn't there. At that point the dog hadn't been outside the parking lot, so no park rules had been broken. The plan was to hike the Sand Point / Cape Alava loop. The ranger simply refused to issue an overnight permit. AFAIK the ranger made no attempt to file fraud charges for attempting to pass off a pet as a service animal. My friend's son end up hiking somewhere else in ONF instead of ONP.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 1:22 pm 
Sorry I misread your post. Thanks for telling us how the story ends though. smile.gif

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DIYSteve
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 2:15 pm 
RandyHiker wrote:
People abusing the ADA to bring their pet does a disservice to the legit folks that rely on their service animals.
ditto.gif There's a scam site that allows one to register their dog as an "emotional support" service dog for a mere $64.95 plus shipping. shakehead.gif

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grannyhiker
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 3:12 pm 
The fraudulent passing off of pets as "service dogs" is of great concern to service dog organizations that serve the disabled! Canine Companions for Independence--Stop Service Dog Fraud.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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Slugman
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 5:14 pm 
The problem is that establishing training and certification standards is seen as a barrier, perhaps, to those who need a dog. So some people are able to scam and get away with it. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=49.60.218

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grannyhiker
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 7:38 pm 
Setting up standards and certification would have to be done at the Federal level, with a change to the Americans with Disability Act. Any change in state law to be more strict than Federal would immediately be overridden by the Federal courts. One problem is that very few service dog providers provide trained dogs for free (Canine Companions for Independence and Guide Dogs for the Blind are two that do). Most providers of service dogs require the client to somehow raise the many thousands of $$$$$ required to train the dog. I know several disabled people who have trained their dogs themselves for this reason. Getting such dogs certified might be difficult. When I acquired the late Hysson (in my avatar) from Canine Companions for Independence (he was rejected due to an overbite), in the contract I had to sign was a clause that I would not attempt to use him as a service dog and that if I did, the dog would be taken away from me. Under ADA, it is legal to ask (1) if the dog is required because of a disability (you can't ask what disability, though!), and (2) what tasks the dog has been trained to perform. I actually saw this happen in my local supermarket a few weeks ago. The dog's owner proceeded to drop all kinds of stuff (non breakable) on the floor. The dog picked up each item, returned it to the owner, and then proceeded to sit quietly at heel. A very well trained dog! Service dogs in training are usually allowed where other dogs aren't. One couple in my church is on the fifth puppy they have raised for Guide Dogs for the Blind. The pup comes to church with them and sits quietly under the pew. After church, of course, half the congregation makes a big fuss over the pup! The pup has a jacket saying "Guide Dog in Training," which Guide Dogs replaces with a larger size as the pup grows.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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mb
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mb
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 8:32 pm 
Grannyhiker wrote:
(1) if the dog is required because of a disability [] (2) what tasks the dog has been trained to perform.
Interesting. I wonder what folks with 'emotional support' dogs say for #2? It's a very common scam so folks can have a dog in their apartment. And everywhere (like the supermarket, etc). Surprised supermarkets don't train folks on how to ask these questions properly--I know they know they can't ask what the disability is.

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bobbi
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 9:35 pm 
a couple of guys heading towards Home Lake, ONP, claimed their dog is a stock animal. it had on it's own 'coat with pockets'. apparently the dog was carrying the guys water, food! i've also seen dogs off leash away from their owner. when the owner showed up after i've been cursing the dog (not everyone loves dogs, especially your dog), they claim the dog is a therapy dog. if it is, why is dog not with the person who needs it, and why is it off leash? a friend had her dog on her lap in the airplane ... emotional or something like that! what if the dog has to do its business? some dog owners are pushing the emotional/therapy/stock/whatever button. i think rangers can only ask what kind of service the dog provides, but can't ask what is the person's disability.

bobbi ૐ "Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting. So…get on your way!" - Oh, the Places You’ll Go! By Dr. Seuss
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Randito
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 10:06 pm 
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Quote:
##When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
Quote:
Service Animals Must Be Under Control Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the individual’s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.

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