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NacMacFeegle
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Norway to invest $1bn to create 10 'bike superhighways'
| Quote: | | Norway will be investing close to $1 billion to build "bike superhighways" around its 10 largest cities. The idea is to create two-lane bike paths that facilitate both in-city travel, and connections to the suburbs surrounding each town. The move is part of a broader push to diversify Norway's economy and invest in infrastructure, largely as a response to plummeting oil prices and job cuts that have accompanied them. |
In addition to this they have implemented other anti-fossil fuel measures, they banned cars in the city center of Oslo, are building Europes largest onshore wind farm, and have divested their sovereign wealth fund from coal and tar sands operations.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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 Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:34 pm |
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Interesting. You'd expect bike infrastructure projects to happen in warm places mostly.
It'd be kind of neat to see that here. But I don't really mind riding on the roads we already have, for the most part. Stevens Pass was pretty uncomfortable, I wouldn't ride on Aurora, or on the freeway, but most of the surface streets in Seattle are fine. What limits my use of bikes as a means of transportation is more the lack of bike parking and the complete lack of enforcement for laws against stealing bikes. We have things like the Burke Gilman Trail, which is mixed use but relied on heavily by bike commuters; whenever the sun is out it's also full of people walking their dogs on 30 foot retractable leashes strung out like tripwires across the trail, groups of people walking six abreast, and that guy zig zagging across the path with headphones on. In the end it's faster and safer to ride in the street.
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Old Not Bold Hiker
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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Old Not Bold Hiker
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:06 pm |
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We can't even get shoulders on both sides of the road in this country.
But Norway cheats. They don't have an economy sucking war machine.
Just sayin'
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GrnXnham
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GrnXnham
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:12 am |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | Norway to invest $1bn to create 10 'bike superhighways'
| Quote: | | Norway will be investing close to $1 billion to build "bike superhighways" around its 10 largest cities. The idea is to create two-lane bike paths that facilitate both in-city travel, and connections to the suburbs surrounding each town. The move is part of a broader push to diversify Norway's economy and invest in infrastructure, largely as a response to plummeting oil prices and job cuts that have accompanied them. |
In addition to this they have implemented other anti-fossil fuel measures, they banned cars in the city center of Oslo, are building Europes largest onshore wind farm, and have divested their sovereign wealth fund from coal and tar sands operations. |
Now if we did this it might help with our runaway obesity problem.
Of course, thats assuming that people would actually USE the bike superhighway. 
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Bedivere
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:15 am |
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I'd be far more interested in seeing high speed rail. Would love to be able to get on a bullet train and be in Portland in a couple hours or a day trip to the bay area.
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NacMacFeegle
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | You'd expect bike infrastructure projects to happen in warm places mostly. |
Actually, Norway has a fairly mild climate thank to the Gulf Stream.
| Cyclopath wrote: | | It'd be kind of neat to see that here. But I don't really mind riding on the roads we already have, for the most part. |
I can't stand riding on most highways; big cities like Seattle might be fairly bike friendly, but here in SW Washington bike friendly roads are few and far between. Lots of busy, curvy roads with little or no shoulder. Even when there is a decent shoulder I don't like riding alongside a busy road. Dedicated bike paths are infinitely more appealing to me.
| Cyclopath wrote: | | What limits my use of bikes as a means of transportation is more the lack of bike parking and the complete lack of enforcement for laws against stealing bikes. |
That's one problem that Norway doesn't need to worry about half so much as we in America do; crime their is a minuscule fraction of what it is in the U.S.
| Cyclopath wrote: | | We have things like the Burke Gilman Trail, which is mixed use but relied on heavily by bike commuters; whenever the sun is out it's also full of people walking their dogs on 30 foot retractable leashes strung out like tripwires across the trail, groups of people walking six abreast, and that guy zig zagging across the path with headphones on. In the end it's faster and safer to ride in the street. |
I think the problem of overcrowded bike trails is largely a symptom of their scarcity. If we were to invest in a large network like Norway is I'm sure the crowds would thin out.
| boot up wrote: | | We can't even get shoulders on both sides of the road in this country.
But Norway cheats. They don't have an economy sucking war machine.
Just sayin' |
Actually, Norway's annual military budget is US $7.2 billion - the highest per capita in Europe. That said, I'm sure it doesn't even come close to what we spend per capita on our military. I'd certainly be in favor of going without a few new fighter jets to be able to build a large network bike-highways in America!
| GrmXmham wrote: | | Now if we did this it might help with our runaway obesity problem.
Of course, thats assuming that people would actually USE the bike superhighway. |
I think there's a high likelihood that if we built a large network of double lane bikehighways throughout our towns and cities that a lot more people would start using them for their daily commute instead of cars.
| Bedivere wrote: | | I'd be far more interested in seeing high speed rail. Would love to be able to get on a bullet train and be in Portland in a couple hours or a day trip to the bay area. |
Norway already has a high speed rail network. However, I think we should invest in hyperloops - 4 times faster than high speed rail, completely solar powered, hugely cheaper to build, and would not be affected by the weather!
Unfortunately but unsurprisingly, Europe looks set to have hyperloops long before we do.
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Randito
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Randito
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:40 pm |
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Its somewhat ironic as a HUGE proportion of Norway 's GDP is from oil. The generosity of their public works and benefits is highly dependent on north sea oil wells.
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tigermn
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tigermn
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:57 am |
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Interesting.. For serious riding I hate dedicated bike paths unless they are deserted. They usually have slow speed limits and lots of congestion with slow riders and most "bike paths" are actually multi use paths where you have to fight the walkers taking up the whole trail, rollerbladers with headphones zig zagging, strollers and dogs on long leashes (or no leash) and other assorted uses.
Nothing wrong with those uses, it just doesn't make it very good for bike riding.
I tend to use such trails as a walker as the going is just too slow/congested for any degree of serious riding (anything above 10-12 MPH at best). The speed limit is usually 15 anyway and often you can't even go that fast.
Bikes are slow enough transportation anyway without having to be further congested/restricted.
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Old Not Bold Hiker
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Location: Bend Oregon |
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Old Not Bold Hiker
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:01 pm |
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| tigermn wrote: | | For serious riding I hate dedicated bike paths unless they are deserted. |
You need to see how they have the bike paths set up in Amsterdam. Walkers and bikers are segregated in separate lanes. And the part I like best about Amsterdam, is that bikers have the top right of way, over walkers and cars, unlike the USA(and many places) where bikes are considered to have less rights than a stray dog.
Interesting note in Amsterdam, no one wears a helmet. We chatted with a Dutch ER nurse while on the bullet train between Paris and Amsterdam, and asked her how they got away with that without a lot of injuries. Her frank reply was "We don't". Apparently head trauma from bike crashes is a major problem. I thought that was interesting.
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tigermn
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tigermn
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Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:04 am |
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The comment was directed at the person that said dedicated bike paths are infinitely more appealing. I guess I should have quoted it.
Those kind of bike paths are pie in the sky here (at least it's pie day).
Here you are lucky to get a glass riddled shoulder that they paint a picture of a bicycle on and call that a bike lane.
As for non motorized bike paths. They are basically all multi use around here and except in times of low usage or extremely poor weather (thus low usage) are not very conducive to efficient bicycle travel. Not to mention all the stop signs seemingly every few blocks...
I've actually seen a couple of pretty severe accidents on the burke gilman trail, so safety isn't a given on "bike" trails either.
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Bedivere
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Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:50 am |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Norway already has a high speed rail network. However, I think we should invest in hyperloops - 4 times faster than high speed rail, completely solar powered, hugely cheaper to build, and would not be affected by the weather! |
A vastly more complex system of sealed tubes with huge pumps to reduce pressure inside them is cheaper to build than train tracks? Color me skeptical.
And then there's
| Quote: | | Some critics of Hyperloop focus on the experience—possibly unpleasant and frightening—of riding in a narrow, sealed, and windowless capsule inside a sealed steel tunnel, that is subjected to significant acceleration forces, high noise levels due to air being compressed and ducted around the capsule at near-sonic speeds, and the vibration and jostling.[62] Even if the tube is initially smooth, ground shifting due to settling and ongoing seismic activity would inevitably cause distortion. At speeds approaching 900 feet per second (270 m/s), deviations of even 1 millimeter (0.039 in) from a straight path would add considerable buffeting and vibration, with no provisions for passengers to stand, move within the capsule, use a restroom during the trip, or get assistance or relief in case of illness or motion sickness.[63] This is in addition to the obvious practical and logistical questions regarding how to best deal with equipment malfunction, accidents, and emergency evacuations. |
Trains are cool, and proven. Time will tell whether this idea is something people actually want.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:52 am |
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| tigermn wrote: | | Interesting.. For serious riding I hate dedicated bike paths unless they are deserted. They usually have slow speed limits and lots of congestion with slow riders and most "bike paths" are actually multi use paths where you have to fight the walkers taking up the whole trail, rollerbladers with headphones zig zagging, strollers and dogs on long leashes (or no leash) and other assorted uses.
Nothing wrong with those uses, it just doesn't make it very good for bike riding. |
Absolutely. I take the street instead of the "bike path" every time, it's safer.
We could spend billions of dollars making new "bike paths" and experienced cyclists will continue to avoid them.
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Old Not Bold Hiker
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Old Not Bold Hiker
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Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:24 am |
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| tigermn wrote: | | Those kind of bike paths are pie in the sky here (at least it's pie day).
Here you are lucky to get a glass riddled shoulder that they paint a picture of a bicycle on and call that a bike lane. |
Let me clarify....
I was giving an example, to show bike lanes can work, definitely not implying there is the slightest chance of that happening in the car worshiping USA.
My ultimate solution for the USA, and it should not be that unrealistic, and I pushed it to many road planners and bike access planners back in my more activist days, would be to simply add and sweep a couple feet of shoulder on all roads on both sides.
I really do not understand the one side of the road shoulder. Do they not expect the cyclists to survive long enough for a return trip??
But then drivers can't figure out that if you have a bike oncoming on a road, and you nudge over nearing the shoulder on your side, all three vehicles would fit just fine on most roads with even a trace of shoulder.
And of course murphy's law of traffic will result in a car passing a bike at the same moment there is an oncoming car, even if no other traffic has been seen in the last hour.
The extremely rare time this would not work is if bike traffic was in both directions at that moment.
Over the decades cyclists are getting LESS road shoulders overall. I have seen many places that had shoulders, where they removed them in the name of road improvement.
And then there are those stupid intersection "bulges" in neighborhoods, squeezing the road even tighter.
So the hope of getting a functional network of real BIKE paths, in our car culture is zero, since we can't even get road shoulders.
Instead we get these disconnected chunks of overcrowded, multi-use paths to nowhere. With joggers and walkers that make sudden u-turns, ignoring the fact that they are sharing the trail.
I lived in Davis CA for a couple of years. Sharing foot and bike traffic worked there, but only because of an overwhelming number of bicycles, so as a walker you would actually learn to pay attention, looking over your shoulder before swinging across the path, and you certainly would not walk 4 abreast, with side-by-side tandem strollers, as we get on our local paths.
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NacMacFeegle
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Its somewhat ironic as a HUGE proportion of Norway 's GDP is from oil. The generosity of their public works and benefits is highly dependent on north sea oil wells. |
Their strategy at the moment is to use that oil-based wealth to diversify their economy and decrease their own reliance on fossil fuels. By doing this they are laying foundations for a prosperous oil-free future.
| Cyclopath wrote: | | We could spend billions of dollars making new "bike paths" and experienced cyclists will continue to avoid them. |
Not if we build ones like those mentioned by boot up, where bikers and walkers have separate lanes. The bike paths Norway is building are also multilane - though I think that instead of separate paths for walkers and bikers they are instead separate lanes for people traveling in either direction.
| Bedivere wrote: | | A vastly more complex system of sealed tubes with huge pumps to reduce pressure inside them is cheaper to build than train tracks? Color me skeptical. |
The estimated cost of the Hyperloop from LA to San Francisco is 6 billion dollars. The estimated cost of a high speed rail line running the same distance is 68 billion dollars. Much of the savings comes from its planned route directly up the median of I-5, which would nearly eliminate the cost of acquiring a right of way that would be necessary with a train.
As the other potential pitfalls you mention; The experience would be ameliorated with fake windows with screens showing a landscape passing by, and with individual entertainment systems for passengers. Noise could be counteracted and acceleration forces dampened. Changes in the ground beneath the systems pylons could probably be corrected for as well. In Greece they were able to find solutions for similar and possibly greater problems when building the Rio–Antirrio bridge. As for not being able to stand up and having no bathrooms, the ride from San Francisco to LA would be only 35 minutes long - short enough perhaps to make having such facilities less of a necessity.
What I'm trying to say is that every new technology comes with problems that must be solved. The Hyperloop is no different in this respect than any other mode of transportation in its infancy.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:09 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | I can't stand riding on most highways; big cities like Seattle might be fairly bike friendly, but here in SW Washington bike friendly roads are few and far between. Lots of busy, curvy roads with little or no shoulder. Even when there is a decent shoulder I don't like riding alongside a busy road. Dedicated bike paths are infinitely more appealing to me. |
You make it sound like once you leave Seattle, there's nothing but freeway as far as the eye can see in every direction. Some of the best riding I've ever enjoyed was on rural highways and byways.
For sure, there isn't a "dedicated" bike path leading to every place you'll ever want to go. And nobody is going to build them for you. But you already have that with roads, for just about every non-wilderness destination you could possibly go to. That's the reality now and it's likely to be the reality 20 years from now.
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