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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostMon Mar 21, 2016 11:17 am 
Johnny Quest, what happens to the trees that block the rivers each spring? Do boaters go through with a saw? I know this is kinda off topic but I was wondering about it while looking at the Cispus River. The Cispus is a fairly popular river to run.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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PostMon Mar 21, 2016 1:01 pm 
JonnyQuest wrote:
Correct, that section of river is technically closed to "travel". Eagle Falls is run fairly regularly, and Sunset Falls has been run maybe a half dozen times. I'm pretty sure the Sno Co closure of this stretch of river originally intended to include both Eagle and Sunset Falls, as well as Canyon Falls. But that's just a guess. As far as I'm aware, this closure doesn't set off much in the way of alarm bells for kayakers, as this section of river doesn't offer much for (mortal) paddlers. Again, actual river closures are not really prevalent here in the PNW. A far bigger concern is closure of access due to private land owners (usually timber companies like Weyerhaeuser or Green Diamond) gating off public access to roads that had previously been open to the public.
I'd be willing to bet that the SnoCo ban was a response to Al Faussett's running of Sunset Falls in 1926

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Token Civilian
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PostTue Mar 22, 2016 7:15 am 
I think the thing with Yellowstone is that kayaks and fishers are incompatible uses there. I was there in '14 and to watch the fly fishers, its clear that they often times use the whole width of the river with the casting. Not only that, but I saw them lined out along the river - several in a row, all spaced out so each could cast without getting in each others way - a veritable gauntlet to pass in a kayak. How pissed would a fisher be to have a group of kayaks come through and spoil their casting? How pissed would kayaker's be to be hooked by a fly fishers cast? Who has right of way if kayakers come down on fishers? Who and equally important HOW is right of way to be enforced? As a practical sense, one or the other group has to absolutely give way to the other, which isn't going to happen in the field. Note - I don't fish and I do sea kayak.
NacMacFeegle wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
I would guess that the NPS ban on boating in Yellowstone has more to do with the logistics of access points, parking and erosion at put in/out sites.
^^^ This makes a lot of sense. I can also see that the park might want to keep areas in a completely untrammeled state, and that dealing with the inevitable rescue missions and logistical problem of having people paddling the parks various rivers would present a whole new set of concerns that the park isn't equipped or funded well enough to deal with.

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Randito
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PostTue Mar 22, 2016 8:59 am 
Token Civilian wrote:
How pissed would a fisher be to have a group of kayaks come through and spoil their casting?
Based on the amount of cursing I've heard floating past fishermen on rivers around here -- even when I make an effort to "drift like a log" and minimize "scaring the fish", I think Token Civilian is on to something. The NPS may be prioritizing existing usage by fly fishers over adding new usage by paddlers.

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JonnyQuest
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PostTue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
Token Civilian wrote:
How pissed would a fisher be to have a group of kayaks come through and spoil their casting?
The NPS may be prioritizing existing usage by fly fishers over adding new usage by paddlers.
Potentially. I'll preface by admitting my unfamiliarity with YNP rivers. But around here conflicts between the two user groups seem minimal. Sure, they can happen, as there are a few bad apples in every bushel. But for the most part, it's congenial as both user groups are proponents for the resource. Many factors beyond common courtesy play into limiting the conflict. In most cases, there's only partial overlap between stretches of rivers utilized by both. There is lots of good fishing water not utilized by kayakers, and visa versa. Similarly, seasonality usually has only partial overlap. "Open" season for fishing doesn't usually fully coincide with the paddling season. There's lot of good paddling to be had when fishing season is closed. I paddle around here regularly, and only on occasion do I cross paths with someone fishing. But again, things might be different in YNP.

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JonnyQuest
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PostTue Mar 22, 2016 11:18 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Johnny Quest, what happens to the trees that block the rivers each spring?Do boaters go through with a saw? I know this is kinda off topic but I was wondering about it while looking at the Cispus River. The Cispus is a fairly popular river to run.
From a kayaker's perspective, portaging around trees obstructing passage is all part of the game. Especially here in the PNW. Kayaks are light enough that it's usually not much of an issue. So no, it's not common (or legal) for kayakers to go through with saws to clear woody debris from a river. Rafts might be a different story, as they tend to be heavier and more cumbersome. I've heard offhand that some commercial rafting companies work with the FS (or managing agency) to allow them to keep passages clear on more commercially viable stretches of river. Not sure if this is actually true, or legal. And yes, the Cispus is a fantastic river, with many great kayaking runs. I've paddled it all they way from the headwaters up on Goat Creek down to the slack water at the Cowlitz confluence. Many other great paddling options in that vicinity as well.

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Bedivere
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Bedivere
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PostTue Mar 22, 2016 8:33 pm 
I'm a fisherman but have never kayaked (though I'd like to). I don't see a couple kayaks passing through as any kind of problem at all. If it was a steady stream of them that seriously interfered with my ability to make a cast then yeah, that might be a problem, but small groups every once in awhile? Big deal. But then I guess people just like to get their knickers in a bunch when things aren't just exactly how they think they should be. As for the scaring the fish thing - my experience has been that when the fish are rising you could toss a stick of dynamite in the hole and any fish that didn't get killed would keep on feeding. Would have to be some really skittish fish to get scared off by a kayak briefly passing over.

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Randito
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PostWed Mar 23, 2016 11:48 am 
Bedivere wrote:
I don't see a couple kayaks passing through as any kind of problem at all.
You are a reasonable guy. But not everyone is -- I have had fishermen curse at me, flip me off, etc while drifting by -- even when I have seen them ahead of time, navigated to the far side of the river and drifted through the pool without taking a stroke. OTH I've also been given a freshly caught, large steelhead from a fishermen that claimed "I'm too drunk to clean it, here you take it" So it takes all kinds of people to make up the world. biggrin.gif

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Mar 23, 2016 3:14 pm 
Bedivere wrote:
I'm a fisherman but have never kayaked (though I'd like to).
Lots of places to rent a kayak on a short term basis. If you're in Seattle, there are a couple spots on Lake Union, an hour is cheap, and on a sunny day it can be one of the great joys of living here.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostWed Mar 23, 2016 4:54 pm 
My kayak project is going into season three. Today and tomorrow I have been sanding it and hope to fiberglass the inside of the hull next week when temps get in the 60s. I am not a woodworker. I have said many bad words while wiring and rewiring and working during the night because the day was too hot and.... I hope the &^% thing is worth it.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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PostWed Mar 23, 2016 7:57 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
fiberglass the inside of the hull next week when temps get in the 60s.
I've built and repaired many of kayaks and canoe using fiberglass type construction using epoxy, polyester and vinylester resins. I've had best results with air temps between 72 and 80 F and low humidity Damp air and temps below 65F have resulted in long cure times and reduced strength and finish blems -- including "blushing" a foggy appearance in the cured resin -- instead of desired crystal clear. Also -- use a tyvek jump suit, including a hood, nitrile or thicker "rubber" glove and a carbon filter mask. The chemicals in the resin can mess you up. The dust from sanding fiberglass and cured resin is bad too. Don't try to clean brushes and gloves -- get disposable ones and toss them out -- the solvent for cleaning the brushes and gloves is a worse hazard than the resin itself. Don't attempt to do this in an attached garage -- or worse a basement workshop. The fumes will stink up the house for days and taint foods. I build my first batch of kayaks (10) in an attached garage while I was teenager -- my mom almost kicked me out. The fumes from polyester and vinylester resins can cause temporary impotence -- that's no fun! Epoxy fumes are less smelly -- but epoxy exposure can cause horrible rashes and hives. Best of luck with your project!!! The is something especially satisfying about paddling a boat you've built with your own hand.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostWed Mar 23, 2016 9:25 pm 
I glassed the keel last summer at night during the hot spell. I glassed seams on the deck pushing the cold limit last fall. The epoxy acted as expected, hardened fast when it was just below 80 degrees and took a couple of days when in the 50s. I am a morning person but you can't work that stuff when the temps are increasing due to bubbles. My shop is an uninsulated, unheated metal building. But maybe next week. I do have sanding to do now that the shop is not so dank and dark.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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