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Schenk
Off Leash Man
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 2372 | TRs | Pics
Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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 Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:35 am |
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I'll throw my 2 stones worth:
Smokers are not a protected group and the default is clean air, not smoky air.
Smokers have no right to foul the air a non-smoker may be breathing.
It is the smokers who must adapt and find ways to be non-offensive. The rest of us are not required morally, ethically, or legally to accommodate and adapt so smokers can light up where ever they want.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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contour5
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Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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contour5
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Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:04 am |
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| Quote: | | Smokers have no right to foul the air a non-smoker may be breathing.
It is the smokers who must adapt and find ways to be non-offensive. The rest of us are not required morally, ethically, or legally to accommodate and adapt so smokers can light up where ever they want. |
I'm in total agreement.
But shouldn't the same rules apply in regard to bike riders vs car exhaust?
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wolffie
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Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 2693 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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wolffie
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Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:31 am |
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a cigarette compared to a campfire is nothing. One chimney can foul a whole neighborhood.
I don't like tobacco smoke, but sometimes it reminds me of my uncle and my dad -- the people who started me on this outdoor stuff -- especially if it's been freshly lit with Zippo lighter.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 2372 | TRs | Pics
Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:30 pm |
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| contour5 wrote: | | But shouldn't the same rules apply in regard to bike riders vs car exhaust? |
Well, it should, but that is a hopelessly complicated issue. I really hate those d-bags in the diesels who have removed their particulate filters and like to blast their black smoke at anyone with an open window, on foot, or on a bike.
Anyway, smokers are able move somewhere away from non-smokers and smoke all they want.
Vehicles, unfortunately, are pretty much restricted to existing roads and can't simply "drive somewhere else".
On the plus side, electric vehicles will eventually make the issue of exhaust go away.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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If you've ever built a campfire (and we all know how much some folks just luuuv their campfires) near where others can inhale its smoke, this discussion about smoking outdoors is completely rhetorical.
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Jake Neiffer
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Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 825 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lexington, OR |
There's often talk of people leaving nwhikers in droves- is it true? The only regular posters I can think of over the last couple years who aren't around anymore are Ski and MtnGoat.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:50 pm |
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| contour5 wrote: | | Quote: | | Smokers have no right to foul the air a non-smoker may be breathing.
It is the smokers who must adapt and find ways to be non-offensive. The rest of us are not required morally, ethically, or legally to accommodate and adapt so smokers can light up where ever they want. |
I'm in total agreement.
But shouldn't the same rules apply in regard to bike riders vs car exhaust? |
In a perfect world, yes.
Our society would fall apart quickly if cars vanished overnight. We wouldn't be able to move food to the cities from the fields quickly enough for starters. That makes car exhaust a necessary evil.
People would be cranky for a while but live longer if cigarettes vanished overnight. That makes smoking an unnecessary evil.
And that's why that comparison has never made sense to me.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:53 pm |
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| AlpineRose wrote: | | If you've ever built a campfire (and we all know how much some folks just luuuv their campfires) near where others can inhale its smoke, this discussion about smoking outdoors is completely rhetorical. |
Also if I detested campfire smoke, I could avoid campgrounds and pretty much be ok. Because campgrounds are kind of a dedicated campfire place. I'd still be able to backpack above X thousand feet and avoid the stuff, because that's a no campfire zone.
In your analogy, where are the smoking and no smoking zones, so people can avoid what they find offensive?
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
You make a good point about the fallacy of the comparison between smoking and cars. I might point out that cars are moving beyond fossil fuels, and that soon no comparison will be possible at any stretch of the imagination!
The only reason I see for smoking to be legal at all is to keep a black market from developing (essentially this is what caused the prohibition to fail). I don't see why this should also mean that smoking need be legal anywhere other than in a persons home.
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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Lol. This thread just won't die...
Do you realize the implications of banning something that is basically nothing more than annoying to other people? That's right. Cigarette smoke outdoors when compared with everything else we inhale is nothing.
You can't microwave popcorn at work cause breathing that sh## is bad...
We will all have to wear special bubble suits and follow very strict rules to enter the public sphere...
Sorry, but nobody has the right not to be bothered.
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Slide Alder Slayer
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1960 | TRs | Pics
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This topic appears to have a life of it's own. Be that as it may a lot of individuals have slowly drifted away over the years or no longer contribute as much and it can been noticed in the reduction of trip reports.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Actually you have all sorts of rights not to be bothered. This includes the Bill of Rights and almost the entirety of criminal law. Real Estate law has the principles of Nuisance and Quiet Enjoyment. If I choose to not hike with smokers or anybody else for whatever reason that is my right.civil Rights laws and nondiscrimination laws do not apply as I am not the government or public accommodation.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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Nobody is question a person's right to choose hiking partners.
My issue is Macfeeble and boot ups idea that people shouldn't be allowed to smoke anywhere but inside their homes.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Well I know quite a few people who break out the dope and smoke around the camp at night! Im sure MORE now that its legal! 
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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