[contour5]

This topic sort of popped up in the last thread on Pack Animules, but I think it might deserve a thread of its own. A week ago, I had a particularly unsettling experience with a dog on a trail. I was coming down the crest trail somewhere near Alaska Lake. Came around a corner and dropped into a little creek wash. A large german shepherd was on the opposite bank. I could see his owner fiddling with gear about 25 feet further down the trail. I slowed, called out a greeting, and started up the little rise. The owner ignored my greeting. Just as I reached the dog, it dropped to a crouch, bared its (large!) teeth and growled menacingly. Our faces were about three feet apart. The dog was in the attack position, ready to lunge. I stopped, my hands automatically went forward to protect myself, or perhaps attempt to strangle the dog if it went for my throat. Adrenaline was pumping wildly. Heart rate probably around 400 beats per minute. The dog's owner finally turned, and with a kind of snotty, mock exasperation called out to the dog, which continued to mad-dog me as I continued past. I was pretty upset. I don't like being challenged by dogs on the trail. I'm really rethinking my position of carrying a weapon, because of this incident. If I had been carrying pepper spray, I would have used it on that dog. I'm guessing I would have then had to use it on the owner in order to get the hell out of there. This kind of situation can spiral out of control pretty quickly if anybody is packing a firearm. The whole situation sucks. I love dogs, and I have a strong dislike for weapons. But we all have a right to walk unmolested, and to defend ourselves when necessary. The solution is so simple! Large, aggressive hostile dogs really have no place on the hiking trails. If you MUST bring your dog, please control it carefully- keep it on a leash. Dog owners have no right to intimidate other hikers with their agressive, hostile animals. The next time this happens, I may respond with more than fear and flight. I believe I would have been justified in spraying or shooting that dog. There is very little time to make a really well thought out response when confronted with an unleashed, hostile animal. Next time I am confronted with this, I may respond with overwhelming force. I do not welcome this sort of conflict. I hope it never happens. But I'll be damned if another dog-owning Troll is going to challenge me on the trail and then excuse himself with platitudes. Your dog is your responsibility. If your dog threatens me, I will hold you responsible. Thanks for reading. Sorry if this is a bit harsh. I've been kind of stewing over this for a week, and I'm still upset enough to perhaps change my habits regarding weapons on the trail. I'd like to hear how others feel about this, and I welcome replys from dog owners. Thanks. Mike L

[Lagerman]

[Slugman]

As a dog owner, I am outraged by this story. The jerk you encountered gives all dog owners a bad name. This guy probably cuts people off in traffic and beats up his girlfriend, too. One of these days his dog will growl at the wrong person, and his "screw-you" attitude about it will get his ass kicked. Sooner for that would be better than later. While I might root for some such comeuppance, I don't see myself as the agent for his lesson. I carry pepperspray always in my left front pocket, and a sharp knife, and would use them if I had to. I have my dog off-leash most of the time, but not on the PCT within dayhiking distance of a highway, or on any crowded trail. Also, my dog wags her tail and doesn't bark, and she is under constant supervision and voice command. And if she did so much as sniff someone's rear end without their consent, I would appologize sincerely to the offended person. For a hike on a crowded trail, she would probably be left home anyway, since leashing is a pain in the arse to me, but still necessary sometimes. From your story, I gather the cavalier attitude of the dog owner was almost as bad as having an aggressive dog off leash in the first place. Negligence and rudeness, what a combination.

[Blue Dome]

[Chief Paulina]

A few months ago, my dog and I were hiking on a trail. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a couple of dogs double-teamed my dog, the result being a small bite on my dog's leg. I became so angry I chased these dogs up the trail, pack and all. When we got to their owner, I yelled like I have never done before. I had totally lost control of my emotions, so uncharacteristic of me. Since then, I've decided that Scooby is just as happy at home and I will be leaving her there on future hikes. I've also decided to carry pepper spray and will definitely use it next time.

[Karen]

Personally, I fail to understand why hiking with dogs has become such a hot item in the first place. If you can't bear to part with your dog on a hike, perhaps you might want to volunteer some time at an animal shelter. Sorry for sounding bitter but I am growing weary of disgruntled hikers complaining about particular trails where dogs are NOT allowed -- as it is, there are plenty of trails hikers can hike with their dogs. Regarding dogs on leashes -- I'd say about 1/3 of dog owners do NOT leash dogs on trails where that is required. Now before you designate me as a dog hater, that is NOT the case. I can't count the number of times on trails that unleashed dogs have rushed up to me (happy to greet me) and I enjoy greeting them too. Most of the dogs I meet on the trail -- on leash or not on leash -- are sweethearts. I guess what bothers me about this whole issue is that hiking with dogs seems more important to some hikers than hiking itself -- THAT bothers me. As a hike leader, I won't allow dogs on my hikes, even if dogs are allowed on the trail. The reason for that is there are already plenty of dogs on the trail and I'd rather be spending my time adoring the mountains than someone's pet. Now as to the original topic on the thread of the scary dog encounter -- that happened to me once too -- and it was a German Shephard. It was on the John Wayne trail near Easton with a hiking group. I straggled behind to take photos and in doing so I encountered a sullen fellow with a German Shephard that was not on a leash. For some odd reason the dog and I made eye contact and perhaps held the eye contact a bit too long because the dog began to come at me (I was about 15 feet away from it). The owner grudgingly called the dog off but as I hiked toward my companions, I could see the dog stalking me and heard him growling low (contouring the railroad grade) through the brush beside the trail. This was truly a scary experience and I was darned glad to catch up with my friends. Karen

[jenjen]

One of the things I've noticed in the last 10 years or so, is more and more people treating thier pets as their children. They literally put their dog on the same level as other people and get offended when nobody else treats their dog with the amount of courtesy they expect. I hope that made sense. A close friend of mine is really upset with me because I won't allow her dog to roam my property until she gets it trained. The dog stays in the kennel or her car - It's completely unthinkable to just leave the dog at home. My friend isn't alone feeling this way about her dog - I see lots of people doing that. Look, I love dogs. I own 3 of them and am watching another one for the summer. I also have no qualms about leaving them in the run when they're just going to get in the way. They're sweet, loveable animals. Train them, control them, keep them under control or leave them at home so they can run amok on your own property. I haven't had any bad experiences with unleashed dogs on the trail, but I'm sure that's just a matter of time given the number of folks out there who aren't willing to do the most basic obedience training.

[Lagerman]

I am tired of people taking there goats on hikes with them and not putting them on leashes..WHERE THE THREAD FOR THAT!! I was headed up to Flap Jacks the other day. Some unresponsible goat owner had there goat unleashed walking down the trial. Before I knew it he had eaten the lettuce from my sandwich and my tin can of beans. I am getting tired of this

[solohiker]

Karen, it's not a matter of not being able to bear being without one's dog for the duration of a hike. For many people a dog is the reason for the hike in the first place. Sporting dogs make great campanions because they are so good with people, but they are meant to be outdoors, in the woods. It's not fair to the dog to keep her/him in the house all day, or on a limited fenced in space in a small backyard. Not everyone has a huge farm where doggie can roam, so a regular hike is an important part of the dog's routine. I know this begs the question, why bring a dog into your household if you don't have space for him/her on your own property. There are many factors in determining whether and what kind of pet to have. I do wish all dog owners would be more responsible, but honestly, I wouldn't single out dog owners as the only people I wish were more responsible. I think dog owners get a bum wrap because of a few bad ones.

[hopalong]

I bring my dog with me because it is cheaper than putting it in the kennel for however long I will be hiking.

[Karen]

Kennels are expensive. Since I am "owned" by multiple cats, I don't venture far from home and am seldom gone overnight. It's expensive to board cats, too. Dogs are a different matter. They DO need to be walked, exercised, etc., and I can see many reasons why you might want to hike with your dog. It just seems that the philosophy has changed ..... in the past, I seldom saw folks hiking with dogs and when I did, they were often with solo backpackers or way out from trailheads distance-wise. It was almost a novelty to encounter someone hiking with a dog. Now it seems to have become the norm and I am just philosophically wondering WHY that is the case. Do people own more dogs these days than a few years ago? Or are there more hikers? It doesn't seem to me that the number of hikers have changed all that much (though backpacking doesn't seem to be as popular as it once was), but the number of hikers WITH dogs seems to have increased rapidly. Now, pardon me the thread drift here .... I work part-time in a pet food/supply store and I am overwhelmed by the "stuff" that people buy for their pets, dogs AND cats. The majority of stuff for pets does seem to be for dogs but every week there is a NEW treat for dogs or cats, SEVERAL new chew toys for dogs and the choices are almost overwhelming. There are TOO many choices!!!! There's too much stuff that pets DON'T need that are being sold in the store. It's like the grocery store where you walk down the aisle and there are 17 brands for Raisin Bran rather than 2-3. And pet food itself ..... the premium brands of cat/dog food keep coming out with new flavors -- food for small puppies, food for big puppies, food for pets with sensitive skin, food for pets with digestive problems, food for Maine Coone cats, food for Persian cats, yadda yadda yadda. And when you read the list of ingredients (almost always in very small print), the amount of fat/protein, etc there isn't a huge amount of difference. People come into the store and their eyes glaze over because the packaging changes so often on the food/treat they are used to buying. Also, the prices on these items are HIGH -- these chew toys are very expensive -- for the life of me I can't figure out what these people do for a living in order to afford all this stuff. At the risk of sounding like a geezer, I can't resist closing this post with what it was like the old days. There were TWO brands of food for pets -- Friskies and Purina. There were tennis balls for dogs or a soup bone. Or we made chew toys for dogs out of old socks knotted together or made toys for cats from string and paper. Also, there were fewer rules and regulations. Dogs ran free and pooped wherever. If someone else's dog pooped in your yard, it wasn't a big deal. Sorry for the thread drift. Karen

[solohiker]

Yeah, those were the good ol' days. Dogs and kids could roam the neighborhood looking for someone or something to do till Mom rang the dinner bell and everyone would come home and eat. It's a different world now, for both dogs and humans. Houses are packed on top of each other, and we don't know the neighbors as well. There's far more traffic in the street, and you never know when a weirdo who would just as soon shoot you as look at you (or your kid, or your dog) will come along. Kids used to get exercise riding bikes, and playing tag. Dogs used to chase rabbits in the backyard - sometimes all through the neighborhood. Now kids have to go to "supervised camp" for exercise, and dogs have to be walked by their owners. Some owners (and their dogs) prefer a walk in the woods over a walk in a city park. As part of the "times have changed" mantra though, dog-owners do need to recognize that leashes are necessary now, where they were mostly optional in "the good ol' days."

[Rade]

I frequently take my dog hiking with me because otherwise I'd be hiking alone most of the time. Furthermore, like others have said, there is no reason dogs should not be allowed to enjoy the great outdoors and get some good exercise too IF they are properly trained, and socialized. Plus there really is nothing better than a wet dog trying to crawl into your sleeping bag with you in the middle of the night.

[ActionBetty]

I had a dog encounter with a golden lab in Oregon this past weekend. I had passed the family (mom,.dad, little girl, big golden lab) several times on the trail and had talked to the family each time.. but the third time I had tried to pass them..their Lab got mighty irritated with me and was very protective of the family. So I just stood there ready to stab it with my hiking poles dare it try to attack. The owners got it on leash as quick as possible.. I think they were tending to a "pee" break . I sure would have hated to stab the dog to death in front of a 3 year old.. The only way I will take a dog hiking with me is if it is highly trained to voice commands or sounds and is people friendly. A good dog knows when its owner is in danger.. not just a barker that thinks everything is a danger.

[kiliki]

I don't think the "good old days" were so good for dogs OR people...sure they ran loose, but they also got hit by cars, ran away or threatened other people (there were some roads I always avoided as a kid when riding bikes due to mean loose dogs). Luckily we've wised up and don't allow free roaming dogs anymore.