[Ringangleclaw]

[NacMacFeegle]

This is incredibly sad, and clearly was more a decision made out of greed than a need to prevent the fire from spreading. That they felled the biggest trees possible (trees that have survived fires in the past and would likely have survived this fire too) makes it obvious that they just out to make a quick buck off of a imagined emergency. The forest service should not see a penny of the money from the sale of these trees. The money should used exclusively to restore the areas damaged by this debacle. If any is left over it should go to an organization such as the Nature Conservancy. Those who made the decision to cut should be heavily fined, lose there jobs and never work in land management again.

[Ski]

[treeswarper]

Excellent points, Ski. I see that as usual, pictures of the landing area and roads are only used. I wonder what the real fireline looks like. When there is a wildfire, loggers with equipment can be hired to build lines. In this case I'd say part of that was skidding the logs to landings. Landings are cleared areas on roads where logs are loaded onto trucks. But on fires, logs are not hauled away. That happens when the decks are sold under a timber sale contract, where the mills or loggers bid against each other and the high bidder gets it. Then the wood is hauled away. Those loggers building the line could not count on getting the timber. There are good reasons that bigger trees than wanted are cut. They can be a hazard to work around--have a shaky, dead top. The trees can be in the way of skid trails or roads, and where a landing goes, an area has to be totally cleared to allow equipment to move around, trucks to turn around and if a shovel type loader is used, it has to have swing room. It IS common to have a rain in early or mid September, then have a dry spell often with wind, occur. Fall slash burns used to get away because the folks in charge lit units off after a light rain. It takes days of good, solid rain or snow to wet things down after a dry season--remember how hot it was last year? I would suggest that a few of those biologists go work on the line with a fire crew. They might learn a few things. Any of you reading this who are young and fit might want to spend a season doing the same. It'll change your outlook on things. Oh, and rehab work is common on ANY fireline. There are whole teams of people who specialize in that. Unlucky fire crews may be held over to work in the rain-- seeding, scattering straw, and building waterbars. I think that reporter ought to get off the road and into the woods. I'd add her to the "ought to go dig line on a fire" group. Lastly, where are the uncropped pictures of the actual fireline? Not a closeup of a stump, nor a landing, but the actual line. And no, Google Earth won't do.

[Magellan]

The only bonanza was for timber companies paying salvage prices for logs that were undamaged. The fellers broke many established rules for the cutting. They cut oversized trees, hammered wetlands with heavy equipment, and did it all in the face of a fading (4% and dropping) chance of it even reaching the area where the fireline was. The district ranger told the wildlife biologist in charge of minimizing damage to shut it. Many things were done wrong, and trying to justify it is sad. If any more private property was damaged, everyone would have asked why more wasn't done to prevent it. Why can't we ask why so much was done unnecessarily?

[JVesquire]

Treeswarper, read the article for once. The locals don't want it maintained or restored, the forest service doesn't have money to restore it, etc. This was poor management. No amount of time "in the woods" as you suggest will change that. Working on a fire crew won't change that. Your working class warrior rant is about as informative as the Wenatchee firefighter who lamented the idea of a vacation home on a burned out hillside.

[treeswarper]

[treeswarper]

[WANative]

All combustible materials have to be removed from a fireline. You don't "selectively cut" a fire break and you don't skip over wetlands or sensitive areas. They will burn too. I agree there was a cutting bonanza all over the eastside. The USFS basically gave away wood in order to get guys come over and thin parcels adjacent to private property to reduce fuel load and fire risk. It's over now and it was a good thing. The job is done and the woods will heal and be in better shape for the future. I also won't say that loggers don't often take trees they shouldn't.

[jinx'sboy]

While I generally don't like to second guess land managers - especially during a going fire - I do recall reading about this when it was happening. And I thought; 'risk SEEMS like it might be dropping, why are they still pursuing it?. Oh well, in any case this probably turns into a pr mess for the FS.' I have NOT looked at any of the firelines or this 'contingency' line. I do know, or worked with, just about every FS staff person mentioned in the story. NONE of them are money grubbing ogres. Or logging oriented troglodytes. Or airy-fairy enviro-wackos. One thing bothered me about the original Times article: Look at the lead picture. I believe those are BURNT logs, yet the story says the fire never got close to the disputed fireline. SO, either this picture is of other timber, since wasn't green timber cut, or someone is trying to embellish a story. There are lots of reason green or burnt trees get cut, in a hurry, on a fire or right afterward. Staging areas, safety zones (which can be huge), etc. Sometimes burnt trees are cut during or soon after a fire if they threaten high standard road, recreation facilities, etc. Finally, there isn't any financial incentive for the FS to over do it in salvage. I believe, like all timber receipts, the proceeds go to the US Treasury - they are not a slush fund that is retained locally.

[treeswarper]

Rehab info. Pretty vague but it does happen. Google BAER team and you can find more. http://centralwashingtonfirerecovery.info/ Needless to say, a lot of money is thrown away on wildfires. Or thrown at. It isn't just the loggers who work on them. The air operations--helicopters and retardent planes are very spendy. But they are good to have around when things get hairy. On the price paid for the timber--I can't think of anywhere closer than Omak that still has a mill. Then Colville. So they've got a bit of a haul to add to the logging costs. Darrington? Umatilla, Oregon? Anybody know where most of it went? The big log would have to go to a specialty mill somewhere as it is too big for the majority of mills.

[WANative]

[edeezy]

[edeezy]

[treeswarper]

I think this might be some of it. There was competition. Sierra Pacific had the high bid. http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd476858.pdf