[puzzlr]

I don't know this area and have no connection with Lynda Mapes but I want to balance out some comments with my perspective. Every time she's written a story about an area or issue I do know about it's been accurate and balanced. She's been following and writing about environmental issues in this part of the state for a long time, and in my experience hasn't written in a sensationalist style.

[treeswarper]

[treeswarper]

Ski, while folks claim helicopter logging is environmentally friendly, it isn't as far as landing size goes. They have to have lots of room and the rule of thumb is an acre. They usually have a mechanic and truck, a fuel truck, which has to have an oil spill containment plan, room for a loader to operate that is not under the helicopter, and the usual other stuff. Or, they can have a couple or more slightly smaller landings, with one totally dedicated to servicing the helicopter. The crews travel like gypsies. Oh, add to the landing a camper or trailer for at least one person to stay in because they have to have security 24 hours. Things look crazy on those landings when they are flying.

[trestle]

[treeswarper]

Perhaps more dog and pony shows (field trips) like this should occur? I'm assuming that science reporters might go. http://www.nrtoday.com/news/environment/state-officials-tour-forests-with-blm-timber-companies/article_c322f44f-4739-5697-8e57-6d463b2d7a5f.html

[Ski]

^ too much trouble to go out in the field and get facts. way easier to learn about forest management reading Harvey Manning trail guide books and Henry David Thoreau.

[WANative]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/lawsuit-over-fireline-seeks-to-curb-forest-firefighting-tactics/

[Chico]

An update - capitalpress.com

[SKS]

That's good news! A fire in central Montana just burned approx 40 square miles because it wasn't fought when it initially started. It started in a "proposed" wilderness area that was proposed in the 70's and has been in limbo since then. The fire was allowed to burn until it went out of control from dry conditions and wind. Around 300,000 acres burned. Houses and other ranch structures, equipment, cattle, wildlife, fences, pasture, haystacks, power lines destroyed.

[RumiDude]

[treeswarper]

Reporters studied journalism. That means most do not understand about complex forest issues that they are trying to write about. Add to that the fact that government employees are involved and are not supposed to comment without the approval of their Public Info person. Their PI person is most likely from a liberal arts background and of little experience doing on the ground work. So you've got a reporter labeled as the science reporter writing on a topic that they really don't understand, maybe with some help from another non-expert who may have gone to a few days of training. Then there are people with an agenda trying to make a buck through a law suit who can spout off about anything. Glad they lost! Fires do not know about NEPA and go into places no matter what the management plan is.

[Seventy2002]

[Ski]

The size of the fireline cut (which is the subject of the story that generated this thread) was 114 acres. This morning at 09:32 PDT another nwhikers member reported that the fire in the Pasayten Wilderness is now at 5005 acres. 114 acres is about 2.2% of the 5005 acres now going up in smoke in the Pasayten, which several members here are bemoaning as the loss of one of their favorite areas. Somebody, somewhere, made a decision to cut a fire line and mow down 114 acres of trees, in an attempt to contain another fire. Apparently it was a bad call - the guy didn't have his magic crystal ball that day, or maybe his Ouija board wasn't working properly. 114 acres cut. At least the timber went to a mill and got put to use. 5005 acres = up in smoke. Not good for nothing to nobody. Which would you really rather have? Get over it already.

[treeswarper]

Micro management and armchair quarterbacking are rampant these days. You gotta be on a big fire to get a clue.

[Ski]

^ Somewhere here in another thread (probably several years ago) I noted that the best fireline was a clearcut. I don't think there's many here who like seeing vast swaths of forest land go up in smoke. From the comments in some recent trip reports, it doesn't sound as though hiking through the areas burned during some of the recent fires is a lot of fun - it certainly wouldn't be my idea of the "ideal hike", anyway. The notion of "letting nature take its own course" sounds all fine and well in concept, but on the ground "letting nature take its own course" means that the process of natural fire regime cycles is going to kick into gear and lots of trees are going to get burned. It pretty much comes down to a choice of "manage" (either by thinning, clearcutting, or prescribed burning) or sit back and watch it burn. Over half of the U.S. Forest Service's budget is now eaten up fighting wildfires. Bear that in mind next time that favorite trail hasn't been cleared, or that bridge hasn't gotten fixed, or that road to the trailhead is washed out. You can't have it both ways. Understandably, in designated wilderness areas (such as the Pasayten) we're not going to be doing any "management", so inevitably those areas will at some point burn. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. It will all burn at some point, even in the rainforest.