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spamfoote
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PostWed Feb 15, 2017 2:47 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
Actually it will shudder regardless of whither you are a moron or a genius. If you unlock the axle it is not locked by definition. AWD is also by definition unlocked. 4x4 sucks of tire wear and economy but other factors are involved including weight. doh.gif
Or you could have seen it say.... pavement... which is why you unlock the axles on pavement compared to dirt...... doh.gif

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DIYSteve
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PostWed Feb 15, 2017 3:14 pm 
spamfoote wrote:
Find it difficult to find any benefits a SUV all wheel drive crossover has over a 4WD 4 door Crew Cab with 6' foot bed
Huh? I've had both for years. AWD SUV drives, handles and has better traction for 95%+ of driving vs. a 4x4 shortbed PU. AWD shines in PNW mixed conditions, i.e., wet, snow, ice, dry, pavement, dirt, freeway, 2-lane, urban, rural. Most AWD SUVs get much better MPG than 4x4 PU trucks. Our AWDs (CX-5, Impreza) handle like sports sedans. PU trucks handle like, well, trucks. Trucks are great for hauling, towing, sleeping in, carrying my pop-up camper and the very roughest FS roads (<5% of all FS roads) where the extra ground clearance can help. But for anything else I'd much rather drive an AWD SUV.
spamfoote wrote:
Only if you are a moron who doesn't unlock it first... AWD sucks for. . . tire wear
confused.gif AWDs are never locked. As Mal says, AWD are by definition unlocked. AWDs don't skidder (as 4WD in 4x4 mode do). IME, AWD does not accelerate tire wear vs. RWD or FWD, and I cannot imagine any reason why they would.

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AlpineRose
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PostWed Feb 15, 2017 4:02 pm 
Unless one can have a fleet of vehicles tailored for every road experience, a Subaru AWD (or other vehicle with good AWD, Subaru seems to have the best) is the best car for the widest range of conditions. It drives like a car, so it's less tiring to drive. It's got a great safety rating. If a Suby is having trouble handling the road conditions, you probably shouldn't be driving anyway under those conditions. Both the Outback and Forester have a lot of clearance (8+ inches), making them suitable for any FS road providing access to most any trailhead. The ONLY tradeoff to the full-time AWD is less than stellar mileage. The mileage is good, but not great. I can't speak to the current crop of Jeeps, but my friend's Jeep drives like a box. Its 4WD does provide excellent traction. But here's the deal. You have to PUT IT IN 4WD to get that traction. In 2WD traction totally sucks. We have been in two accidents, because the Jeep was in 2WD when we suddenly encountered slippery conditions - not 4WD slippery, just a little slippery. One of them required a several hundred dollar tow. In the other, if there had been other cars nearby, we could have been killed.

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DIYSteve
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PostWed Feb 15, 2017 5:07 pm 
Bootpathguy wrote:
Scratch my head why somebody would choose a Crossover SUV over a Crew Cab 4 Door 4x4 Truck with added canopy as their trail rig.
Try this: Most people accessing THs drive their vehicles 99% on smooth roads. Or try this: Most people accessing THs also use their vehicles for things other than driving to THs. Or try this: Most hikers drive more on paved or smooth dirt roads than on bumpy roads to get to a TH.
Bootpathguy wrote:
Not sure what make, model, and year truck you are driving
2017 Toyota Tundra currently

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AlpineRose
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PostWed Feb 15, 2017 6:38 pm 
Quote:
Crossover SUV For Forest Service Roads" is the topic.
Yes, and I made the assumption most folks would be using an every day vehicle to also access FS roads. Sorry if you found that offensive.

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Gil
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 7:37 am 
Best TH vehicle I've ever owned is the Toyota Sienna 2wd van we've had for the past 15 years. Never been stuck, even on some really horrendous roads -- although I pushed things a bit last year driving over the washout on the road up to Eagle Lake. Spacious to camp in. Comfortable to drive. 25 mpg. I don't need to pay more for capability that I might use 0.5 percent of the time -- for those trips, I'll just ride with you!

Friends help the miles go easier. Klahini
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drm
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 9:16 am 
DIYSteve wrote:
Subie AWD is great but note that Car & Driver and others prefer Mazda's current AWD over Subaru AWD. One can set up tests to favor one over the other.
I'm sure that's true, and most of the video tests I find don't include Mazda anyway. They are innovators so I don't find it exceptional to see them as valid competition for Subaru. The issue for me is that the nearest Mazda dealership is 80 miles away. Nearest Subaru is two miles.

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Canyon10
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 9:54 am 
The answer to the question is easy to answer. Just go to any NP Ranger Station or Forest Service Ranger Station and see what their personal vehicles are. More then likely you will see USA made 4 x 4 pickup. They seem to like the 250's.

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InFlight
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 10:16 am 
Backpacker Joe wrote:
InFlight wrote:
4 Wheel Drive Locked HIGH (Transfer Case and Axles Locked for zero slip)
I get what youre trying to convey, but VERY few vehicles are sold that have "locked" axles. 4x4 high or low does NOT have locked axles. In either case if one wheel starts to spin traction is LOST! The axles are NOT locked so that the non spinning wheel will drive the other spinning wheel out of that condition. Toyota sold some vehicles that came with locked axle options. Jeep sells the Wrangle Rubicon with locked axle options. Other than that its up to you to add that ability.
The Rubicon comes stock with DANA 44 front and rear electronic lockers and a 4:1 low transfer case. With real wide ratio differentials it is definitely not a daily driver, least not at high-way speeds. But a seriously nasty off road brute. The full sized Jeeps are sold with a Quada-drive system that features either gerotor pump or electronic limited slip differentials with 100% lock capability. (My older Jeep has this system) Most of the other classic Jeeps came basic with a viscous limited-slip differentials and a locking transfer case. I'm not aware of any classic Jeeps sold with pure open axles that your describing.

“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...” ― Henry David Thoreau
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Randito
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 10:24 am 
Canyon10 wrote:
The answer to the question is easy to answer. Just go to any NP Ranger Station or Forest Service Ranger Station and see what their personal vehicles are. More then likely you will see USA made 4 x 4 pickup. They seem to like the 250's.
I've seen a lot of Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagons parked at ranger stations -- but that might have something to do with kind of wages the Forest Service pays

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DIYSteve
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 10:40 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
I've seen a lot of Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagons parked at ranger stations -- but that might have something to do with kind of wages the Forest Service pays
Did you check to see whether Silas was sleeping inside?

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 12:03 pm 
We had an 84 one of those and sold it for almost as much as we paid for it with +200k miles on it. They are highly coveted in Colorado. Great little ski car.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 12:24 pm 
Canyon10 wrote:
The answer to the question is easy to answer. Just go to any NP Ranger Station or Forest Service Ranger Station and see what their personal vehicles are. More then likely you will see USA made 4 x 4 pickup.
That's not my experience. All the FS workers I know drive AWD SUVs as their personal vehicles and drive USFS trucks on the job. Anyway, it's a red herring. Most USFS workers do not regularly drive to THs in their personal vehicles.

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Randito
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 12:40 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
Did you check to see whether Silas was sleeping inside?
No, Silas's Tercel is "rusty" brown/gold -- it is his Subaru that is blue.

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Randito
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PostThu Feb 16, 2017 12:42 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
We had an 84 one of those and sold it for almost as much as we paid for it with +200k miles on it. They are highly coveted in Colorado. Great little ski car.
Looks like it is for sale again https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6003228649.html

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