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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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 Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:39 pm |
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“Hazardous Conditions on the Undi Road-Permanent Closure of Road in Near future Likely”
"Residents that live on the road ask that drivers adhere to the county’s request that the road be used by local traffic only. The unstable road cannot take much traffic activity.
This decision not only affects the residents with an uncertain future but also impacts access by emergency vehicles. It also impacts access to the Bogachiel Rain Forest Trail, a popular destination for locals and visitors to the area."
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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Location: Stuck in the middle |
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:11 am |
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How can they publish and article like that without a map? linky
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:45 am |
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Jefferson county is not doing the right thing. It hardly seems appropriate to just throw everyone under (or Undi) the bus. People love to blame the FS when access is lost, but as we see here it is corrupt and incompetent local governments, and the cheapskate residents of these areas, that are often to blame.
Funny use of "local traffic". That usually means no through traffic, but the Undi road doesn't go anywhere, all traffic has always been 100% local traffic. I think they mean no access except by local residents. I'm not sure if that is legal, the road is a public road.
Too bad we don't have Montana's laws, or do we?
"Counties cannot close roads without going through formal abandonment proceedings. However, often the neighboring landowner will use the closed road exclusively and prohibit public ingress/egress claiming it to be private. . Such roads make good prospects for reopening and providing access to public land.
County Roads which serve two or more residents cannot be abandoned without unanimous consent of all landowners as per State Law. "
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:16 am |
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| puzzlr wrote: | | How can they publish and article like that without a map? linky |
The map is out of date and thus a bit inaccurate. The road ends at the Bogy Trailhead.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:22 am |
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Jefferson County has long neglected the West End roads and the people who live there. They like the revenue from logging there, but don't give a damn about taking care of anything else.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Just another land grab by "locals" taking over access to a national park 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 7220 | TRs | Pics
Location: Stuck in the middle |
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:00 pm |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | The road ends at the Bogy Trailhead. |
Fixed it in OpenStreetMap. I couldn't figure out how to split the road segment there in Google MapMaker, or they don't let users do that.
MP 1.1 is at the Bear Creek crossing which is still in Clallam County. It's another mile or so until it crosses into Jefferson County. Not knowing anything about this, I just wonder who has jurisdiction and why.
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spamfoote
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Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 860 | TRs | Pics
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| Slugman wrote: | | Jefferson county is not doing the right thing. It hardly seems appropriate to just throw everyone under (or Undi) the bus. People love to blame the FS when access is lost, but as we see here it is corrupt and incompetent local governments, and the cheapskate residents of these areas, that are often to blame.
Funny use of "local traffic". That usually means no through traffic, but the Undi road doesn't go anywhere, all traffic has always been 100% local traffic. I think they mean no access except by local residents. I'm not sure if that is legal, the road is a public road.
Too bad we don't have Montana's laws, or do we?
"Counties cannot close roads without going through formal abandonment proceedings. However, often the neighboring landowner will use the closed road exclusively and prohibit public ingress/egress claiming it to be private. . Such roads make good prospects for reopening and providing access to public land.
County Roads which serve two or more residents cannot be abandoned without unanimous consent of all landowners as per State Law. " |
Its more likely the uber snooty rich blokes from Seattle/Olympia forcing all roads to adhere to insane regulations requiring insane road expense to keep roads open. Or the idiotic regulations which do not allow them to MOVE the roads away from rivers. Here is a thought, instead of wasting all of the states taxes on a very expensive tunnel under Seattle, just so the residents of Seattle can have a park on the waterfront, maybe the state should have, oh I don't know, thought about the rural counties once in a while...
Just like the Suiattle river road project cost over a million bucks, making a dangerous twisty road in the process because some idiot bureaucrat in the FS, likes gardens instead of roads, instead of $100,000 for a nice safe straight road.
It isn't the locals who are the problem. It is the regulators in Olympia forcing roads to meet some insane standard whom close said roads to local only traffic.
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
I would say that hiker access to the Bogachiel trailhead counts as "local traffic" and that hikers should continue using the road as long as it remains un-gated and navigable.
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:19 pm |
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| spamfoote wrote: | | It is the regulators in Olympia forcing roads to meet some insane standard whom close said roads to local only traffic. |
In this case it was the Jefferson County Commissioners.
"Jefferson County Commissioners recently passed a resolution closing the road from milepost .09 to the road’s terminus to all but local traffic and mail service."
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
| RumiDude wrote: | | Jefferson County has long neglected the West End roads and the people who live there. They like the revenue from logging there, but don't give a damn about taking care of anything else. |
| Malachai Constant wrote: | | Just another land grab by "locals" taking over access to a national park mad.gif |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:26 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | I would say that hiker access to the Bogachiel trailhead counts as "local traffic" and that hikers should continue using the road as long as it remains un-gated and navigable. |
Maybe you should ask the Jefferson County Commission if that is their intent. It doesn't sound like it is the intent of the closing. In this case local traffic probably means people who live back there. The road is only about 4+ miles long, IIRC. It ends at the Bogy Trailhead. There is no thru traffic on Undi Road.
"Residents that live on the road ask that drivers adhere to the county’s request that the road be used by local traffic only. The unstable road cannot take much traffic activity."
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Mikey
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Joined: 04 Sep 2003
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Location: SW Washington |
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Mikey
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:11 pm |
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A "County road" is one petitioned by "freeholders", approved by resolution, and opened by a board of county commissioners. It could also be road that is dedicated for public use and approved by Board of County Commissioners. Finally it could be one acquired by “eminent domain “.
Counties cannot close roads without going through formal abandonment proceedings. However, often the neighboring landowner will use the closed road exclusively and prohibit public ingress/egress claiming it to be private. . Such roads make good prospects for reopening and providing access to public land.
County Roads which serve two or more residents cannot be abandoned without unanimous consent of all landowners as per State Law.
County commissioners may direct county surveyors or public works departments to prepare suitable plat books. The plat books record a full description of each county road, showing each course by bearing and distance, a full and complete map of the road, and a record of all proceedings with reference to the road. Unfortunately , many counties do not fully comply with this procedure and method of operation. (Some petitioned roads may have missing segments because the petitioning process was never completed. )
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics
Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:53 pm |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | "Residents that live on the road ask that drivers adhere to the county’s request that the road be used by local traffic only. The unstable road cannot take much traffic activity."
Rumi |
Yeah, I'd ask that folks do not drive down my street just to turn around and head back from whence they came also.... 
If the road is in such dire straits that a few extra cars are likely to "overload it", I'd suggest everyone just walk, likely no one is going to come out alive otherwise! Sounds fishy to me... I think I'll have to go take a look for myself.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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spamfoote
Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 860 | TRs | Pics
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| RumiDude wrote: | | spamfoote wrote: | | It is the regulators in Olympia forcing roads to meet some insane standard whom close said roads to local only traffic. |
In this case it was the Jefferson County Commissioners.
"Jefferson County Commissioners recently passed a resolution closing the road from milepost .09 to the road’s terminus to all but local traffic and mail service."
Rumi |
Yes, and it was done why? Road in disrepair. Why? WA DOT standards forced down county throats if they want WA DOT $$$.
Why does this matter? Because if local police/fire deem a road to be in disrepair they will allow/disallow certain functions. In this case, non local use traffic is forbidden as the local emergency response folks cannot disallow them from accessing/entering as it then becomes a locally maintained road.
County officials only have so much $$$ to keep all their roads up to WA DOT standards. Guess what? When the cost of adhering to all these ever increasing standards keeps going up, the mileage a county can maintain goes DOWN.
Want to blame someone? Blame the bureaucrats in Olympia who keep enacting ever increasing workloads for every single mile of road.
Sales/Property tax the vast majority go TO Olympia who then divies it up and sends it back to the counties. 6.5% sales tax goes to Olympia. Same goes for property tax. For instance here in King County, for every $ of property tax money, the county receives from the STATE, 18 cents back for roads emergency response etc. Majority obviously goes to schools at over 50 centers per dollar.
Whatever you do, do not blame the county officials. They have little to no say in the matter. In this case it could be the county who only has so much $$$ is fishing for NPS or FS or DNR $$$ to help them out as the majority of the users are probably using said road specifically for NPS access.
Let us also not lose sight of the fact nearly every road is less than 100 years old. What this means is the road bed in many sections of hastily built road were not well thought out and placed in a hazardous position from which is is a guarantee to need major repairs in the future. Given time, road foundations as a large % cost of maintaining roads will become a decreasing portion in the future.
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