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Randito
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Randito
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 Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:15 pm |
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| Quote: | | The U.S. Forest Service is scheming a historic shift from a century of strict regulation focused on controlling and limiting access toward a new mission that encourages more Americans to more safely explore public lands.
The agency’s top recreation officials Wednesday gathered at the REI flagship store in Denver with dozens of outfitters, guides and outdoor-industry leaders to discuss the transformation of the 111-year-old agency.
The Forest Service last year began exploring how it could draw more newcomers to public lands. The agency found it would need a cultural shift, transitioning toward using Forest Service staff and upgraded technology to enhance the visitor experience and enable more use.
“We have a strange tendency of gearing toward ‘no’ than gearing toward ‘yes,'” said Tinnelle Bustam, the Forest Service’s assistant director of recreation. “We want to pivot from ‘no’ and pivot toward ‘yes.'”
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http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/28/forest-service-cultural-shift-access-public-lands/
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:43 pm |
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If they want to encourage access, then they'd better fix the washed out roads. Gotta love it, one hand is saying more access the other is busy either not fixing or decommissioning roads. Ooops, cynical me...
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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Randito
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:09 pm |
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My read on this is that it will make the process of obtaining a Special Use Permit for organizations like NOLS, Outward Bound and other groups. Yeah -- if access roads are blocked that is problematic, but when there are more users -- sometimes stuff can happen to solve problems.
An example that comes to mind for me is road NF-136 that reaches the "Rampart Ridge Backdoor" -- the USFS doesn't do any work on this road -- so when Wolfe Creek flooded one year and damaged the road the USFS just put of a "road closed" barricade.
However that road and it's spur access a launch point for hang gliders / paragliders and the organized a work party and patched up the road -- perhaps not to official government standards -- but good enough that the USFS re-close the road.
Anyway I think the key to maintaining access roads and trails in the forest for that matter is having a sufficient population of people that use the land and care about such things (and are willing to write their congressional representatives about it)
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reststep
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reststep
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:16 pm |
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Does this mean no more quota system like in the Enchantments?
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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Randito
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Randito
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:28 pm |
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NacMacFeegle
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This seems like less of a plan to make public land more accessible and more a move to make it easier for private companies to profit from public land. I would prefer that they made permits harder to get rather than easier.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:57 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | make it easier for private companies to profit from public land. |
Any non-profits.
Also remember the mission statement of the Department of the Agriculture (which the forest service is a part of) includes economic activity
| Quote: | | We provide leadership on food, agriculture, natural resources, rural development, nutrition, and related issues based on public policy, the best available science, and effective management.
We have a vision to provide economic opportunity through innovation, helping rural America to thrive; to promote agriculture production that better nourishes Americans while also helping feed others throughout the world; and to preserve our Nation's natural resources through conservation, restored forests, improved watersheds, and healthy private working lands. |
LINK
Personally I'm much keener in the prospect of greater economic activity in the form of recreation than in mining, forestry, grazing and other resource extraction activities. Better to have hordes of screaming teenagers than mining.
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NacMacFeegle
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Recreation as an economy is great, but not at the expense of the environment. Public land is already suffering from the effects of increasing visitation. Seeking to increase visitation is a bad idea, and doing so by decreasing regulations meant to reduce human impact is an even worse idea.
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WANative
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WANative
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:08 pm |
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It's a step in the right direction. They need to "market" exactly what they do and modernize if National Forests have any chance of surviving in the future.
I would envision that easy to access areas will see an increase while the "more than an easy 1/2 day hike" areas will be just as busy as they always have been.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:08 pm |
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| Jason Blevins, reporting for the Denver Post wrote: | | ...gathered at the REI flagship store in Denver..." |
First of all, I have to take issue with that statement.
REI's "flagship" store is in Seattle, Washington.
Another example of a reporter attempting to redefine standard terms of the English language.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:34 pm |
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| Jason Blevins, reporting for the Denver Post wrote: | | The transformation is a monumental task for an agency that has seen its budgets and staffs torched by wildfires. Over the past two decades, fire suppression has grown from 16 percent of the agency’s annual budget to more than half. Budgets for recreation, heritage and wilderness are down 15 percent in recent years. Dollars for roads are down 46 percent; funds for facilities are down 68 percent and money for deferred maintenance — such as new boat ramps and campground toilets — is down 95 percent. In the past five years, the agency has lost 30 percent of its staff. |
| Joe Meade, Director of Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer Resources, NFS, and Rick DeLappe, Program Manager, Recreation One Stop, NFS, before the Interior Subcommittee, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, U.S. House of Representatives, Regarding the Future of Recreation.Gov, on May 24, 2016 wrote: | | Outdoor recreation is an essential part of our American culture. Thousands of rural and urban communities benefit from recreation on federal lands. When Americans play outside during outings or overnight trips, their spending directly supports outdoor-oriented industries such as outfitting and guiding, lodging, and concessions, many of which are small businesses, and many more. In 2012, outdoor recreationists made more than 938 million visits to federal lands and waterways, spending $51 billion and supporting 880,000 jobs. Many of these jobs are located in rural communities and are associated with numerous outdoor industries and small businesses. For the Forest Service, outdoor recreational experiences are the single largest contribution to the gross domestic product and local economies, generating over 13 billion dollars in revenue and supporting approximately 205,000 jobs. |
https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Meade-DeLappe-Statement-5-24-Recreation.gov_.pdf
| Jeff Zarronandia, reporting for Snopes.com on July 16, quoting the adopted GOP policy for 2016 wrote: | | "Congress shall immediately pass universal legislation providing a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal government to convey certain federally controlled public lands to the states,” reads the adopted language. “We call upon all national and state leaders and representatives to exert their utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of those lands identified.” |
http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/16/gop-platform-proposes-to-get-rid-of-national-parks/
| Craig Collins, commenting in the Denver Post wrote: | | "...the deadly devil is in the details...it's a very, very, slippery slope." |
We have not yet been told exactly what those details might be.
In the morass of a maelstrom of misinformation in the midst of a Presidential campaign, the hyperbole and outright lies fly thick.
| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | "...make it easier for private companies to profit from public land..." |
From exactly which part of the Denver Post article did you draw that conclusion?
| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Recreation as an economy is great, but not at the expense of the environment. Public land is already suffering from the effects of increasing visitation. |
Citation?
| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | "Seeking to increase visitation is a bad idea..." |
On what planet?
| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | "...and doing so by decreasing regulations meant to reduce human impact is an even worse idea. |
From exactly which part of the Denver Post article did you draw that conclusion?
I have to wonder if you were actually reading the same article as the one RandyHiker cited in the original post of this thread.
Let me see if I've got this right:
You believe increasing recreational use and visitation is a bad idea.
You believe all hunting should be banned.
You believe rotation cycles on timber harvesting should be measured in centuries, not decades. (Still waiting for an explanation of how your business model works on that one.)
You believe all recreational shooting should be banned on public lands.
You believe all motorized use of public lands by "motorheads" should be banned. (i.e., 4x4, ATV, ORV, motorcycle)
You believe that bicycles should be banned on trails.
Let's see... that leaves mining and grazing, neither of which (at least from what I've gathered from your previous posts) you are a proponent of.
Exactly where do you see the United States Forest Service generating enough revenue to cover their operational expenses?
The original vision of both Theodore Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot, in coming up with the idea of a "National Forest Service", was that it would become a self-sustaining entity through sales generated by resource extraction.
As revenue levels generated from resource extraction have decreased significantly, while operational expenses (and wildfire management costs) have increased exponentially, Congressional funding appropriations have dwindled annually for the last several decades.
Revenues generated from permit fees have not filled that gap. The NFS has a monstrous backlog of maintenance that is not being done due to lack of funds.
Moreover, projects which need to be done to help prevent wildfire are not being completed, resulting in more destructive wildfires. (i.e., Rim Fire of 2013)
In lieu of revenue generated by timber sales, grazing fees, mining licenses, recreation permits, and/or guide fees, exactly how would you propose the NFS support its operations?
If NFS and BLM lands are not self-sufficient financially, they become a de facto financial liability; garnering ever-greater support for the proposals to privatize those same lands.
If it has not yet become clearly evident to you that the Federal Government (read: US Congress) has not (and has not for several decades) any intention of increasing funding appropriations to NFS, and has chosen to effectively allow the agency to "die on the vine", when do you think that epiphany might take place?
Again, I admire your zeal and idealism, but unfortunately both are completely disconnected from economic reality.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
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Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
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Ski
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:46 pm |
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oh... oh... wait:
I forgot all about Special Forest Products !!
That's it, isn't it?
NFS can generate enough revenue selling permits for mushrooms, berries, boughs, beargrass, and salal to cover its operational expenses and firefighting budget, right?
No... wait... increases there would require increased visitation, wouldn't they?
.... and that would be a bad thing in your world, right?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Pyrites
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Pyrites
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:20 am |
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Maybe a horse packers will take some more into the Pasayten. Maybe loss of trails will be stopped and a few sawn back open.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:53 am |
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| Pyrites wrote: | | Maybe a horse packers will take some more into the Pasayten. Maybe loss of trails will be stopped and a few sawn back open. |
Maybe, if the roads are in good enough shape to get there.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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treeswarper
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:56 am |
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An interesting or not factoid about our local Special Forest Products. Bough sales will soon be hard to come by. The bough sales take place in the upper elevation plantations. Since no more clearcutting is occurring, Noble Fir are not being replanted. The trees used for boughs are about boughed out and growing into....well, bigger trees.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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