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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics
Location: United States |
| Bedivere wrote: | | What I want is to educate people and raise standards of living. There is a very clear correlation between the education level of a population and its birthrate, which is also partially correlated with living standards. *Most* countries where people are highly educated have birth rates below replacement level. |
The problem with raising living standards in developing nations is that this results in a dramatic increase in their resource consumption. If every impoverished, overpopulated nation in the world were raised to American standards of living pollution and resource depletion would skyrocket. It would take an extremely long period of time for increased living standards and better education in third world countries to decrease the global population. Better education and increased standards of living should be pursued of course, but this must be accompanied by strict limits on how many children may be born every year. That way we can decrease global consumption and degradation of resources while allowing for increased standards of living in third world countries.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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 Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:25 am |
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cascadeclimber
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
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| Jumble Jowls wrote: | | Anyone else notice the craziness of too many people today? |
What I notice is that when people get too packed together for too long with little opportunity for relief, we start treating one another poorly.
We get in a mindset of scarcity; there isn't enough room, time, food, love, money, etc. so I have get what I "need" at the expense of others. Maslow's Hierarchy kicks in at a lower level where things like morality, courtesy, and compassion aren't significant.
For me personally, the after-work and weekend hikes I used to do to escape the crowds and accompanying insanity have been attacked, as I've mentioned elsewhere. Without accessible, uncrowded trails that provide intense exercise, I struggle to stay out of scarcity myself. For me, Kamikaze Falls, Mailbox, Old Si, and the Cable Line were places of re-creation and rejuvenation. Having to battle for a parking spot, room on the trail, hike amidst litter and poop and tinny music blaring from cell phones up rock-hard switch-backing trails is just as crazy-making as being stuck in a 90+ minute commute from the U District to Issaquah.
Bottom line is that I don't think it's the number of people, it's their proximity and their difficulty in routinely escaping that proximity that leads to the poor behavior toward one another.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7732 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:25 pm |
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| AlpineRose wrote: | | And another thing...I marvel at how much of the vaunted PNW booming economy is the result of companies that don't actually make things |
This is a bizarre idea, thinking that only manufactured psychical goods have value.
Let's take Microsoft for example. People like you and I are willing to pay for "nothing" in the form of Windows and Office. As much as it's in style to make fun of MS products, they're useful, and that's why people will pay for them.
People spend millions to make movies and then the public spends hundreds of millions to watch them; movies, also, aren't "things." But people sure like to be entertained. During the Great Depression people would spend money to watch Shirley Temple films.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:32 pm |
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| cascadeclimber wrote: | | For me personally, the after-work and weekend hikes I used to do to escape the crowds and accompanying insanity have been attacked, as I've mentioned elsewhere. Without accessible, uncrowded trails that provide intense exercise, I struggle to stay out of scarcity myself. For me, Kamikaze Falls, Mailbox, Old Si, and the Cable Line were places of re-creation and rejuvenation. Having to battle for a parking spot, room on the trail, hike amidst litter and poop and tinny music blaring from cell phones up rock-hard switch-backing trails is just as crazy-making as being stuck in a 90+ minute commute from the U District to Issaquah. |
I've hiked less this year than any I can remember. Mind you I've done some fantastic hikes this year, just not as many as usual, by far. Got really tired of the traffic and the crowding and the dog poop bags lining the nearby trails.
Riding a bike is intense exercise. It's a rejuvenating form of recreation. You can find some solitude on dirt roads, but even if you don't, you're moving at a different speed from everyone around you which creates its own type of solitude, you "escape proximity" like you said because you create your own bubble. On weekends I can park at any pull out on the side of the road, and go cover 50 miles, escaping into my own head, taking in the scenery, and getting many of the things that hiking does for me.
I don't have any control over what happens on nearby trails, but I've found another way to be happy. Based on what you've said, I get the idea you'd like it too.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:05 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Let's take Microsoft for example. |
Microsoft makes numbers -- long long strings of binary digits. In the old days these numbers were delivered via floppy disks, then CD-ROMs, then DVD-ROMs and now by download.
Also a huge % of the Boeing's PNW payroll is engineering and design -- which these days similarly involves "only" the "arrangement of magnetized spots on spinning discs" (Boeing doesn't actually "print out" engineering drawings much anymore). I think the amount of payroll spent on engineering and management is greater than the amount on the workers that build the aircraft.
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
I have spent most of my life producing and defending intellectual property. It is probably the largest industry in many states and the industry which the United States leads the world. What other industries produce such as steel, wood, paper, plastic, and energy are useless without the knowledge that turns them into useful commodities.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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AlpineRose
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Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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And vice versa. Too many don't remember that without the "things" the other stuff will collapse. Like the proverbial house of cards.
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
True, but the value is in the IP. A book without ip is just pieces of paper. A plane without IP is aluminum and steel. A house without IP is just cordwood. A program without IP is just 1's and 0's. A chip without IP is only sand. Raw materials are available everywhere, it is what you do with them that makes all the difference in the world.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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WANative
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Joined: 09 May 2016
Posts: 277 | TRs | Pics
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WANative
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Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:54 pm |
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The "desk jobs" and the computer geekery make the industries that build "real things" more efficient. That is their purpose.
Imagine a simple parts guy using microfiche VS one with a computerized database. The guy with the computer can do umpteen thousand times more work.
Imagine how much time an engineer saves by not having to go and retrieve drawings. You can actually build and stress things in Cyberspace and figure out how much less you can get away with and build products that more refined and more efficient.
Etc etc....
Imagine snail mail VS email.
Heck, imagine a world with no internet forums. We would be wasting gas driving out and doing things! 
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cartman
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 2800 | TRs | Pics
Location: Fremont |
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cartman
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Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:46 am |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Population increase is the root of most of human civilizations problems. |
Closely linked to corruption, greed, intolerance and inefficiency.
Eliminate those factors and control population growth and there would be plenty for everyone.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7732 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 am |
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| WANative wrote: | | Imagine how much time an engineer saves by not having to go and retrieve drawings. You can actually build and stress things in Cyberspace and figure out how much less you can get away with and build products that more refined and more efficient. |
Things that need to be aerodynamic are tested first in computational fluid design software, and then in the wind tunnel after the CFD model is acceptable. We have better things because of it.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7732 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:08 pm |
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | How many drones do you think there are? There's a lot more of me than of them. |
A basic knowledge of the English language is all it takes to answer this question.
"Me" = singular = there can only be one
"Them" = plural = there must be more than one
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cdestroyer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 1251 | TRs | Pics
Location: montana |
 ..to many people in the back country, hey? YOU are the people in the back country. Stay home, watch tv, mow the lawn. There were many a time I sat just off trail and watched yall walk right on by, never even looked around. Gotta get from point A to B as fast as ya can. On more than one occasion I was sorely tempted to use the unmentionable device and leave you to rot in rawleys chasm or some old mine shaft. 
You complain in this forum about other people and their manners on the trail but I wager your attitude changes when you get 50ft into the forest.
addendum.. and to the person who texts about unleashed dogs and then posts a photo of the mutt running ahead of them on the trail...HUH!
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cdestroyer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 1251 | TRs | Pics
Location: montana |
oh and by the way, if ya think your local favorite hike is crowded then think on this...glacier national park which is only open for about 3 months of the year and one of the ruggest parks set a record for number of visitors this year and yellowstone also had attendence up. there is a lot of open hikeable areas here in montana that would probably be less crowded but may not be as scenic as the parks.
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