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kbatku Questionable hiker
Joined: 17 Sep 2007 Posts: 3330 | TRs | Pics Location: Yaquima |
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kbatku
Questionable hiker
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Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:53 pm
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OK, here's the deal - I've been in construction for almost 40 years - starting as a carpenter's helper/construction labor, working as an apprentice plumber and after 10 years of that started my career as an electrician in 1987. I know a heck of a lot about construction and houses, am versed in nearly every phase, and am pretty much an expert residential electrician.
In other words, I pretty much know my stuff about houses - how they are built, designed, and what works and doesn't work in a final product.
That being said...
My daughter and her husband are having a new house built. They never asked for my help or suggestions when designing it and I didn't offer. I figure they are grown ups and if they wanted my help they would ask, still it bothered me a bit that they didn't. But I kept my mouth shut and didn't insert myself into the equation.
Fast forward to a couple days ago when they showed me the plans for the place, which have been approved and "finalized". I noticed a glaring problem with the design but kept my mouth shut and just smiled and nodded, trying to treat them like the adults they are. They designed the house, it's their decision, I should just keep my nose out of it.
Everyone I've run this by says the same thing - stay out of it. But if they go through with the design as it is now, they are going to hate it and eventually have to do an expensive remodel to fix the problem - and they will wonder why I looked at the print and never said anything.
So do I go for the dick move and point out the flaw and fix and have them get mad at me and ignore me anyway, or just keep my trap shut and let nature take its course? I'm really, really inclined to butt in, but everybody tells me that's a no win situation, that I should keep my mouth shut, smile and nod and pretend I don't have a problem with their future $400K house.
This is really bugging me, and if I keep my mouth shut it will pretty much bug me forever, but they'll be happy (until they move in). So do I go for my sanity over their hurt feelings or keep my mouth shut and suffer in silence?
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:59 pm
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kbatku wrote: | This is really bugging me, and if I keep my mouth shut it will pretty much bug me forever, but they'll be happy (until they move in). So do I go for my sanity over their hurt feelings or keep my mouth shut and suffer in silence? |
I'd mention it, and let them then decide what, if anything they want to do.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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Matt Tea, Earl Grey, Hot
Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 4307 | TRs | Pics Location: Shoreline |
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Matt
Tea, Earl Grey, Hot
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Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:08 pm
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I think it's better to say something now than regret being silent later.
However, I don't know the relationships involved, so only you can judge whether it's a situation that's open to your input.
If you do say something, it's helpful if you can keep the roles clear, so it doesn't come across as interfering. For example, phrase it something like "Here's something I noticed in the plans" (which is about you) rather than "Your plan is flawed" (which is about them). Tell them you saw something that looked like a problem, and then let them decide if they want to ask for further advice.
“As beacons mountains burned at evening.” J.R.R. Tolkien
“As beacons mountains burned at evening.” J.R.R. Tolkien
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:09 pm
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I'm not a carpenter or electrician, but I'll toss in my two cents:
If the current plan results in a situation that causes problems (like my Grandfather inadvertently reading the blueprint upside-down when they put in the stairway from the basement to the main floor), I would suggest bringing it to their attention.
As moonspots says, it's their decision as to what course to take.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Seventy2002 Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 512 | TRs | Pics
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You can call it to their attention without calling it a problem. Say something like "Hmmm, I never seen it done like that before." If they want you to go beyond that, they can ask.
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olderthanIusedtobe Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2011 Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics Location: Shoreline |
Well they did show you the plans and know how much experience you have in the realm of home building.
How much expense would they potentially have to incur to fix the problem after the fact?
Without knowing all the dynamics involved, I would lean towards mentioning the issue to them and risk upsetting them rather than letting them make a significant mistake that you've already foreseen.
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olderthanIusedtobe Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2011 Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics Location: Shoreline |
Here's another way to look at it. If you say nothing and they figure out the problem after it's too late, and at some point your daughter asks you if you noticed it when you looked at the plans, what do you do? Lie and say you didn't notice, or say "oh yeah I noticed it but chose not to say anything." Not so good either way.
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16093 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
My advice is to tell them but be diplomatic. Whit may see bad could be intentional. I had a case where the homeowner drew up their own plans which included a 10" step on the roofline. The builder built it like that and they were pissed because the builder did not alert them to the obvious glitch. They would have been grateful if the builder had told them, "do you really want this?" I always assume that subs are idiots and will follow your orders unless you correct them , an expert opinion is always appreciated.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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bk Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2012 Posts: 266 | TRs | Pics
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bk
Member
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Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:40 am
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What moonspots said, Moonspots wrote: | I'd mention it, and let them then decide what, if anything they want to do. |
Here's the long version of that, below:
Two theories on Asking For Advice (e.g. from the point of view of the kids designing the house . . . ):
1) Preface the request for advice with, "We may not follow your suggestion, but would like your opinion on . . . "
. . . and the other end of the range is:
2) If we ask your opinion, we feel obliged and indebted to follow it.
Some people think strategy #1 is the only reasonable strategy. Others insist strategy #2 is the only thing that clearly makes sense. (. . . and a range of varying degrees of opinions in between).
If you are a person who believes in Strategy #1, and you ask for advice from a person who believes in Strategy #2, then the person using Strategy #1 (the asker) has to make it clear to the other person (who believes in Strategy #2; the one being asked) that "We may not follow your suggestion, but would like to know..." so that the person being asked (who believes in strategy #2) is not hurt later on when their advice is not followed. That is tough to do when the person you are asking is a true believer in strategy #2 ("Why ask? . . . if you're not going to follow my advice . . . ? ")
It can sometimes be tough enough to communicate that, when asking for advice (that you reserve the right not to follow it) that maybe sometimes it's just not articulated at all. (And feelings are hurt when the advice is, later, not followed.)
The big Plus of strategy #1 is being able to take viewpoints from a wealth of different resources, double-checking, redundancy, and being flexible on plans and decisions . . . (but still tough for the one being asked, if they happen to be right that they are expert on a subject, and their advice is not followed).
A way for an asker to "lighten the question" is to say, "We're taking a poll: What is . . . ?" Or "We're researching various ideas . . . " And maybe that's implied, but not said. But maybe that's what they meant. Sounds like you think they are of strategy #1. You could preface an offer of advice with, "In case you're taking a poll: My vote is to change this from A to B."
If you speak up, and they do something else, your opinion will not have been "ignored." (Too black-and-white; too strong of a word.) It will have been considered (and your input would have been appreciated, whether expressly said-so or not). The fact that they showed you the plans means they're interested in your opinion. Sure, they're adults. Adults help other adults, right? If you see a glitch, absolutely point it out if they went to the trouble to show you their plans. Just don't feel badly if they don't act on your advice. (Who knows how many other projects, priorities and challenges that they have lined up on their plate.) But put your opinion out there, and then it's in their hands. And let them do whatever they do.
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Token Civilian Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 590 | TRs | Pics
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Quote: | I noticed a glaring problem with the design but kept my mouth shut and just smiled and nodded, trying to treat them like the adults they are. They designed the house, it's their decision.... |
So.....help us out here.
If this is an aesthetic type problem, well, then that's one thing, or are we talking about no kidding structural type problem? A choice of incompatible materials? Wrong paint color?
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flatsqwerl Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 1049 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
there is nothing like making a painful and expensive mistake to truly learn something.
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Navy salad Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2008 Posts: 1865 | TRs | Pics Location: Woodinville |
I appreciate your reluctance to offer unsolicited advice. In fact, in my experience, that's one of the biggest complaints children have about their parents.
BUT: Given the consequences, if it were me, I'd be as diplomatic as possible and say something like "I usually try to make a point of not offering unasked-for advice, but I did notice a possible issue in the plans that could cause problems down the line. Would you like me to tell you about it?"
If they say something like "That's ok pops, we're good.", then you've at least tried to help them and you're off the hook when things turn south. If they say "What did you notice?", then you just saved them a lot of hassle.
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AlpineRose Member
Joined: 08 May 2012 Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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If it were me designing my future home, I'd want to know. But naturally, only you know what your family dynamic is that is preventing you from speaking out.
They showed you the plans, yes? Perhaps in an oblique way, they were looking for your input, since you have years of street cred.
Using the good advice from others on this thread, use your best diplomatic manner to point out the flaw if it really is serious.
I like the idea of piquing their curiosity by saying you noticed something they might want to consider, then ask if they'd like to hear it.
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DigitalJanitor Dirt hippie
Joined: 20 May 2012 Posts: 792 | TRs | Pics
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Well.... you could go the total obvious route and lead in with: "I got to thinking about it and something is bugging me about those plans. Do you want my opinion on the details of this, or do you want me to butt out?"
- If they say NO, then fine, your side of the plate is clear. Butt out.
- If they say YES, use the diplomacy mentioned above.
- If they say YES and then get bent out of shape at your carefully phrased answer anyway... as my dad puts it, "They'll get over it or they won't". My guess is that years from now when their ego is a little further removed from the situation, they'll probably mention that in hindsight they were glad you said something in spite of it.
You sound like a great parent BTW.
My dad can be a real type A bear to deal with, but I can't even TELL you how much grief and money his carefully sprinkled advice has saved us over the years.
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I'm Pysht Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 517 | TRs | Pics Location: Pacific NW |
I sure would want free expert help from someone who loves and cares about me if I were in that same situation. I'm also someone who prefers people to be straightforward, I have little ego, and I don't get my feelings easily hurt, so I don't have much understanding of such situations. I also value learning through other people's mistakes. I like to think it's saved my ass a few times in the mountains.
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