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trestle
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PostSun Feb 26, 2017 6:03 pm 
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I believe it's time we all built a green house. The avocados have no flavor anymore anyways, darned industrial vegetables.

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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Feb 27, 2017 1:19 am 
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Trollswarper - your Red Herring argument about carbon emissions from hikers is complete BS and you know it. Loggers and their machines are at least equal to all the carbon emissions you blame hikers for, probably more when you consider the quantity of fuel those things must burn!

Trees and intact forest ecosystems are the best way we have of sequestering CO2, and since trees grow exponentially faster it is imperative that we allow forests to continue growing rather than mowing them down for a quick buck. Current short harvest cycles are essentially the logging industry shooting itself in the foot repeatedly. Let them grow for 100, 200, 300 years (the more the better) and you will see timber yields and carbon sequestration increase at the same exponential rate as the growth of the trees.

The regrettably backwards and willfully ignorant attitude on display from the typical stewardship forum trolls here is the reason so much of Western Washington has the appearance, and ecological/economic value of a badly moth eaten carpet. It is the reason so many rural towns resemble those more commonly found in impoverished nations. As long as we cling to destructive and outdated land management policies of the past we will continue to wallow in the rut we've been stuck in since our short-sighted ancestors chopped down the last of the ancient forests. In doing so they doomed our best chance of a truly successful and sustainable logging industry while also drastically limiting the potential growth of the recreation industry.

We could restore our damaged lands given enough time, and put them to better use sequestering carbon and providing fertile ground for expanding the outdoor recreation economy. However, we can't do that because too many ignorant and illogical people ignore science and reason and remain mired in the past.

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treeswarper
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PostMon Feb 27, 2017 11:09 am 
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Hey, I took science classes in college.  I worked with science for 32 years.  I'd say it is science that has improved our forest practices and continues--not emotional drivel.

Appearance means nothing.  Look what a volcano did.  Nature is not into keeping forests standing or beautiful. 

If you want to do away with wood products, invent something to take the place.  You haven't addressed the fact that there is a market and a need for wood products.  Please tell me what will replace it and the pros and cons.  For example, the current trendy answer is industrial hemp.  Sounds good to most folks.  Can houses be built from it?  And.....how much deforestation and land must be converted to farm land to grow it?  Farming in a formerly forested area is.....deforestation or true extraction because you have no reforestation.

And no, pointing out how much resources tourists and travelers use is not a red herring.  It is a legitimate concern if you are on a soap box proclaiming recreation to be a green and wonderful replacement for another industry.

Better replant your goat pasture before proclaiming timber harvest to be evil.  It's kind of hard to convince me if you don't walk your talk.

B&M logging still is looking for rigging crew people.  Apply now and get a balanced education and learn actual physics.  Physics is science.

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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Feb 27, 2017 11:38 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
Appearance means nothing.  Look what a volcano did.  Nature is not into keeping forests standing or beautiful. 

To outdoor recreation and the huge economy it drives appearance is of incredible importance. Furthermore, the blast zone has become a far more vibrant ecosystem than a commercially managed forest land. A forest is better off being blasted or burned than logged.

treeswarper wrote:
Hey, I took science classes in college.  I worked with science for 32 years.  I'd say it is science that has improved our forest practices and continues

Then why do you constantly shun science (as well as economics and logic) in favor of destructive and outdated ideas and practices?

treeswarper wrote:
If you want to do away with wood products, invent something to take the place.  You haven't addressed the fact that there is a market and a need for wood products.

A scarcity of building materials would be a good thing. It'd put a stop to the plague of urban sprawl and would necessitate more efficient use of resources. Also, we need to halt population growth anyway, and that alone would eliminate the need for such vast quantities of building materials.

treeswarper wrote:
And no, pointing out how much resources tourists and travelers use is not a red herring.  It is a legitimate concern if you are on a soap box proclaiming recreation to be a green and wonderful replacement for another industry.

I'm not disputing the fact that outdoor recreation has problems that need to be addressed. However, when you consider the environmental impacts of the logging industry (or indeed any such destructive extractive industry) the environmental impacts of outdoor recreation are negligible by comparison. The way you use the environmental impacts of outdoor recreation to try and paint anti-logging/pro-outdoor recreation arguments as hypocritical is indeed a red herring. You use it to distract from the bigger picture, which is that replacing extractive industries with outdoor recreation is an economically viable way of restoring natural ecosystems and increasing carbon sequestration.

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trestle
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PostMon Feb 27, 2017 8:56 pm 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
The regrettably backwards and willfully ignorant attitude on display from the typical stewardship forum trolls

You might want to mix in a manners class while you're still learning about rural economics.

NacMacFeegle wrote:
the reason so much of Western Washington has the appearance, and ecological/economic value of a badly moth eaten carpet

Seriously? Apparently moth eaten carpets are worth quite a bit these days. What is also apparent is that you're not paying attention to property values throughout western Washington.

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Schroder
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PostSun Mar 25, 2018 11:03 am 
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This action by the Snohomish County Council throws more confusion into the timber harvest:
County Council members back off timber-harvest land deal

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Snohomish County reversed course and now intends to ask the state to stop the process of transferring 25 acres of forest near Wallace Falls State Park to protect trails and view corridors from logging.

Quote:
The transfer had been intended to break years of deadlock keeping a timber auction from moving ahead, as opposing factions pitted environmental and tourism priorities against the commercial value of the lumber.
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Nancyann
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PostThu Mar 29, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Who knows what motivates politicians to suddenly and unexpectedly change their minds. I don't know if this has anything to do with Snohomish County's reversal, but I talked to a local resident a couple of days ago who is very involved in this particular issue and he said there are going to be no more land acquisitions to expand the trail system in the Reiter Foothills because there is a concern that criminals will use the trails to run drugs.
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timberghost
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 4:19 am 
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Is that what is currently happening up there? Log it and replant.
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Schroder
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 10:39 am 
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Here's the portion of the Singletary timber sales that's the issue:

The details of the entire sales block are here (pdf):
Singletary Sales
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ale_capone
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PostSun Apr 01, 2018 6:44 am 
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Ive read that comment elsewhere Nancy Ann.  I find the idea highly ammussing. I picture herds of human drug mules using the trail to pack weed from the pickle farm triangle, to index. I'm sure there is a shortage there, and that would be much easier then using the highway. clown.gif

Sounds like either fear mongering, or some seriously out of touch people. No one is going out in the woods to make drug deals, or run drugs. The only problem I could see is vagrants living in the woods doing drugs. But they do that regardless. You never see them on developed trails though. Making trails would actually Chase them away...

There are over a half dozen seasonal spots within a 1/4 mile of my house, and not much more then a game trail. They go there because no one hikes there.

Although, if they make trails, they will be displacing the homeless.
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Nancyann
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PostSun Apr 01, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Agreed, it sounds like there is some paranoia going on. The person I talked to said he and all his friends have started packing firearms when they use the local trails. confused.gif
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Schroder
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PostThu Jan 23, 2020 12:57 pm 
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The Snohomish County Council has reversed itself on the Singletary harvest and the stand has been renamed the Middle May timber sale.

County Council backs contested timber harvest near Gold Bar

Quote:
A benefit could come after the trees are logged, because bridges and roads built for the harvest will be left, creating other recreational opportunities.

“Wallace Falls is already overrun and packed,” Low said.
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Gwen
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PostSun Jan 26, 2020 10:21 am 
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NacMacFeegle wrote:
A scarcity of building materials would be a good thing. It'd put a stop to the plague of urban sprawl and would necessitate more efficient use of resources. Also, we need to halt population growth anyway, and that alone would eliminate the need for such vast quantities of building materials.

Three years later, I can't help but wonder how you feel about this statement, Nac. 4.2 million people now residing in Pugetopolis with more arriving every day. Still need to decrease resources for construction?

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Gwen
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PostSun Jan 26, 2020 10:26 am 
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Schroder wrote:
The details of the entire sales block are here (pdf):
Singletary Sales

Sadly, this is a dead link (but the photo still provides a good reference for the boundaries).

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Tomorrow's not promised to anyone, so be bold, scare yourself, attempt something with no guarantee of success. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve. -Olive McGloin
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Nancyann
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PostSun Jan 26, 2020 11:08 am 
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I talked to the Wallace Falls ranger and he said it will not obliterate the existing trail system that Snohomish County built a few years ago on that hill, but there will be a road put in above it. This could make it easier to expand the Wallace Falls trail system in that direction. It will affect the views for a lot of the folks who live in Gold Bar though.
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