[Dalekz]

As reported in the Seattle Times today North Cascades National Park offering online reservation system to obtain back-country permits http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/north-cascades-national-park-offering-online-reservation-system-to-obtain-back-country-permits/

[mountainsandsound]

[Chico]

[christensent]

I'll bet the only reason they did this was to come up with some way to justify $20 for a permit. Just one more great place to go that costs money to climb (or makes it way harder without paying).

[mountainsandsound]

I was thinking the same thing. I had wavered back and forth about NOCA park expansion for a long time. This announcement has sent me into the against expansion camp. You know if the Washington Pass climbing areas were part of the park the powers that be would be ready to milk that cash cow.

[Foist]

$20? Cash cow? I'm probably one of the more anti-big-government people who post on the site, and even I think you guys are way overreacting. They are setting up an online system to efficiently dispense reservations for the limited spots available at the most popular sites. This is good news to me, because it enables me to plan ahead (or take a shot at the remaining 40% if for some reason I can't plan ahead). But these online systems cost money. I'm sure they're not raking in a profit from them. To me, it's well worth the cost. I'd gladly pay 20 bucks to know ahead of time that I have a spot at, say, Sahale Glacier camp. And this measly $20 fee makes you anti-expansion? Trails, roads and facilities within the National Park get so much better maintenance than Forest Service stuff. Also, the title of the original post is not accurate. They are accepting online reservations starting March 15, not "now."

[spamfoote]

All PUBLIC parks, forests, rivers, etc should be free. Period. Be it parking, picnicing, hiking, backpacking, boating, or boat launching. All fees do is disenfranchise the poor. I have gone to NCNP exclusively and not MORA/ONP(via front door anyways...) because I do not pay money. Good thing GPWA, and PWA, ALWA, are still around and not part of the damned "park" for rich folks. If you want registration, fine. Money, no. PS. As far as I am concerned, all Federal land should have been turned over to the state when the state in question be it Oregon, California, Washington, or Alaska were founded. Why should bureaucrats in Wa DC determine land use patterns that locals are far more aware of than someone far far away?

[Tom_Sjolseth]

Why the NPS hasn't gone to an internet-based permitting system is beyond me. It's 2017 and nearly everything we do in society is internet-based. A private company could do this so easily. NPS is not working for us with a $20 permit fee. The permit can be reserved ahead of time for $20 via pay.gov, but it still needs to be picked up IN PERSON prior to your trip. And they want to expand the park? Fat chance.

[Foist]

Tom, I thought that is exactly what they are doing. They are instituting an online -- or "internet based" -- system. If there a difference? Do you mean an online form on their own website versus a third-party service? I figured they were using something like recreation.gov. In any event, I don't see the difference between doing the system in-house versus farming it out; either way, it costs money. Perhaps the in-house version won't work as well, but we don't know that yet.

[Tom_Sjolseth]

The permits are reserved online, but you still have to drive to a ranger station and pick it up. To top it off, you pay $20 just for the opportunity to reserve in advance. For climbers heading to destinations such as Forbidden Peak (for example), this does no good. Sunny weather is desired for climbing, and that is not easy to come by in the North Cascades. If I reserve a permit in advance then it might help me obtain a permit easier. If I get bad weather, then I'm probably not going to climb anyway; I'll be sitting in the tent twiddling my thumbs with no views. At that point a $20 permit is pretty useless to me. I'd rather have it be free and fair like it is currently. I've RARELY had a problem getting a permit in the N Cascades, but I haven't been to Boston Basin in over 10 years (in the Summer). But that doesn't matter. What matters is that this is a money maker for the NPS, make no mistake. It will lead to an increase in overall permits obtained due to people needing to reserve permits in advance and then getting bad weather and either cancelling or going and not summitting and returning at a later date (for yet another $20 non-refundable opportunity to get a permit in advance). What I'm proposing is an online system whereby a user finds the permit zone via a search bar, the computer system queries the database and checks to see if there are any available in that permit zone, if a permit is available, book it only up to 24 hours in advance (or whatever it is now when you pick it up in person). If a permit for the chosen zone is not available, then everyone who has applied for a permit in that zone gets a random lottery. This is a very rough draft, but I'm sure with a little bit of time, someone can come up with an intelligent algorithm that would ensure fairness and convenience. Saves gas, saves time, saves resources.

[Yana]

[Foist]

So don't apply for a reservation if it's so useless. You can still go in person and get a free walk-in permit, even if the reserveable 60% is full (which shouldn't happen, if you're correct about how useless they are). If people are willing to pay the $20 in advance because they really want to go on those dates (e.g., because they are traveling from out of town, or it's the only time they can get off work, or whatever), and they are willing to take the risk of bad weather for $20, why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? As for needing to stop by the ranger station, big deal. It's basically on the way and only takes a few minutes. But I agree it would be better if they'd let you just print it out like ONP does. Are there really mountaineers so destitute they can't afford to shell out $20 for a trip? I'm calling BS. Relative to the overall expense of that activity, that is peanuts. And again, they can still get in for free if they have a flexible schedule.

[Foist]

[pcg]

[Tom]

I think $20 is pretty ridiculous. Heck, if no fee collection was involved it would be fairly easy to code it for next to nothing.