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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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 Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:31 pm |
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| Tom wrote: | | I think $20 is pretty ridiculous. Heck, if no fee collection was involved it would be fairly easy to code it for next to nothing. |
+1 A $5.00 token fee is more than enough, especially in light of the fact you have to pick up the permit at a ranger station, which itself is ridiculous. Just like an airline boarding pass, you could print the permit out yourself.
Rumi
EDIT: Upon a little further reflection, I suppose they are trying to keep people from hogging up the permits and across a window of time and then just picking the best weather to actually come. Not sure how to fix that.
More thinking ...
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Tom
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Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:19 pm |
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Well, they could make the reservation fee more of a deposit. For example, $50 with $45 refunded to original form of payment if you pick up. Sadly, it seems the die is already cast.
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drm
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:27 am |
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My guess is that the in-person pickup requirement is to know that you are actually using it, so they can free it for same-day users if not.
As to the obscene $20 fee, if their system is their own standalone one, then it probably is helping to pay for development.
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Stefan
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Stefan
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:57 am |
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| Tom_Sjolseth wrote: | | What I'm proposing is an online system whereby a user finds the permit zone via a search bar, the computer system queries the database and checks to see if there are any available in that permit zone, if a permit is available, book it only up to 24 hours in advance (or whatever it is now when you pick it up in person). If a permit for the chosen zone is not available, then everyone who has applied for a permit in that zone gets a random lottery. This is a very rough draft, but I'm sure with a little bit of time, someone can come up with an intelligent algorithm that would ensure fairness and convenience. Saves gas, saves time, saves resources. |
I kind of like this idea. But I would tack on $50 for a reservation....and if you pick up the reservation...then you get $30 back. It motivates people to be honest with the reservation system.
If no one shows up for the reservation by 10:00am then they lose their money...and the reservation can go to somebody in line at the ranger station. For free.
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BigBrunyon
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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Location: the fitness gyms!! |
ITS GETTING TO BE TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE TO GO HIKIN THESE DAYS!!!
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The Lead Dog
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Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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Location: Kent Wa |
Another place to cross off my list!  Like I would go there anyway. Guess they aren't getting much off their $5.00 add-on to the License Tabs? Esp. now that the cost went way up for us poor saps that got screwed when that Sound Transit initiative passed. Or maybe it could be to help feed the Grizzly's they want to put back in? 
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Tom
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Tom
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:53 pm |
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| drm wrote: | | My guess is that the in-person pickup requirement is to know that you are actually using it, so they can free it for same-day users if not.
As to the obscene $20 fee, if their system is their own standalone one, then it probably is helping to pay for development. |
But that's really no justification. If it costs that much to implement that's a huge red flag they have hired or outsourced to the worst in class to implement. I mean, seriously, Ticketmaster is probably one of the most obscene when it comes to service fees and I don't think they charge more than $10 service fee.
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
Joined: 08 May 2006
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Location: Back! |
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:06 pm |
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Yeah but Ticketmaster operates on a much larger scale, by orders of magnitude, which must reduce their cost per-customer.
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Tom
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Tom
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:04 pm |
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Ticketmaster charges what they do because they are a monopoly, not because they have scale. I would venture to guess most of their fee is pure profit. I doubt this is the first online reservation system put in by the national parks. I would think they should be able to leverage best in class implemented elsewhere. It makes no sense to me that each park would roll their own. But it seems here they are implementing something that doesn't make much sense from a practical standpoint and charging $20 for the pleasure. SMH.
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
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Foist
Sultan of Sweat
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:24 pm |
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Yeah, could be. When I first read about it, I wasn't hung up about the amount, just mildly pleased there was an advance online reservation option. But maybe you're right that the amount is excessive.
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Tom_Sjolseth
Born Yesterday
Joined: 30 May 2007
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| Stefan wrote: | | I kind of like this idea. But I would tack on $50 for a reservation....and if you pick up the reservation...then you get $30 back. It motivates people to be honest with the reservation system.
If no one shows up for the reservation by 10:00am then they lose their money...and the reservation can go to somebody in line at the ranger station. For free. |
How about if the permit cost a meager processing fee ($1.75). Enough to support the software (a few lines of code built into the existing web interface, then a payment link to pay.gov) and additional enforcement required for the system to function with integrity. For verification, how about if the permit buyer writes in a predetermined code at the trailhead register, issued by the computer system when a person buys the permit. NPS parking lot checkers come around and look for a matching code. If no matching code, then a ticket. That means the person at least went to the trailhead (which is more than can be said if the person picks up the permit in person at the ranger station). The downside is if you run out of gas on the way to the trailhead, the car breaks down, etc, you owe money. Upside is it's convenient, you don't have to go to the ranger station, you can leave at whatever time you want, it gives everyone a fair chance to get a permit for a given area, etc.
Another rough draft, but already far better than the proposed pilot. A trip to the ranger station (wasting gas, wasting time, causing late starts) should not be required in this day and age. A virtual trip is all you should need.
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pcg
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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
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pcg
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:17 pm |
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| Tom_Sjolseth wrote: | | NPS parking lot checkers come around and look for a matching code. If no matching code, then a ticket. |
Lots of good ideas, but that's a lot of driving around - enough to hire another summer employee.
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Tom_Sjolseth
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Enforcement would only be needed for areas where permit zones are full. Boston Basin, Cascade Pass, etc etc. It's really simple.
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pcg
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pcg
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:33 pm |
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Actually that seems like a pretty good idea, especially since it means you don't have to go by the ranger station to get a permit. I still think it needs to cost enough to pay for occasional enforcement patrols.
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christensent
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Joined: 05 Nov 2011
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| Tom_Sjolseth wrote: | | What I'm proposing is an online system whereby a user finds the permit zone via a search bar, the computer system queries the database and checks to see if there are any available in that permit zone, if a permit is available, book it only up to 24 hours in advance |
That might not work. Lots of people would just grab a permit 23 hours and 59 minutes before the day, just in case they might find a partner, etc.
I bet it'd result in practically nobody showing up who reserved a permit, and those who genuinely are prepared to go not being able to get a permit unless they have the fastest internet and a custom script setup to grab the permit automatically the second it becomes available.
Learning mountaineering: 10% technical knowledge, 90% learning how to eat
Learning mountaineering: 10% technical knowledge, 90% learning how to eat
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