| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
trestle
Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 2093 | TRs | Pics
Location: the Oly Pen |
|
trestle
Member
|
 Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:52 pm |
|
|
| Backpacker Joe wrote: | You can  all you want. Government needs to be SMALLER in every aspect and on every level!  |
Perhaps you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm shaking my head at the shrinking of every agency besides the biggest one, and that one is having their budget expanded. The largest federal agency is the one that needs cut the most; based on your post, I assume you agree with that.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
|
| Back to top |
  
|
|
Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:04 pm |
|
|
| BPJ wrote: | | Government needs to be SMALLER in every aspect and on every level! |
Be careful what you wish for.
That "cut and slash" just happened in the US State Department immediately after the appointment of our new US Secretary of State.
Let me know how that works out for you.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MyFootHurts
Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kekistan |
| Ski wrote: | | That "cut and slash" just happened in the US State Department immediately after the appointment of our new US Secretary of State.
Let me know how that works out for you. |
So far, so good.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Workman
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3699 | TRs | Pics
Location: In the woods, by the big tree |
| treeswarper wrote: | | Backpacker Joe wrote: | | Government needs to be SMALLER in every aspect and on every level! |
Why and how? Do we get rid of the socialist snowplows? Gonna cut the Forest Service even more so no fire prevention work gets done and no crews can be hired to fight fire? Who ya gonna call when ALL agencies are cut and you need help?
It's a popular saying to cut the gubmint. The problem is when the pro cut folks are asked what to cut and how needed and wanted services are still to be delivered. It's much easier and requires no thinking to either post a meme or make a blanket statement. Reality is that we all like our roads, woods, and even services--like trail maintenance.
By the way, the Forest Service has been cut and hacked massively since the timber harvest shrank. I'm not sure they can take much more. The folks at the top will survive, but the worker bees will not be hired. |
Well, TS I know one cut they could make: Take away every penny for "road decommissioning." This is the stupidest waste of money in the agency, tearing up perfectly good roads. Not everyone can hike five miles to enjoy a view or listen to the trees grow.
Move that money into trail maintenance, campground maintenance and road repair.
(Now watch the flames...  )
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
|
| Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:17 am |
|
|
All right. We have one real statement that is not rhetoric. Now, we quit funding that, and then can we figure out a way to actually maintain roads? In my neck of the woods, we seem to be down to just a half dozen roads that are maintained, and the 23 road has been out of use for a year. Other roads get maintained when a timber sale is in the area.
Also, then one has to convince the enviro groups that roads are not evil. They are a major push behind the decommissioning. Forest transportation plans will need to be changed. How can that happen without channeling money into court costs?
I'd volunteer to do some road brushing work, but the hoops one has to jump through to do that are also daunting.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:04 pm |
|
|
| Dave Workman wrote: | | Take away every penny for "road decommissioning." |
The "Catch-22" there is that all NFS (and NPS) roads have to comply with established minimum standards, which cannot be done without regular maintenance.
Without the necessary funding for road maintenance, those roads become a liability, so the standard course of action for a couple decades has been do decommission them.
| MyFootHurts wrote: | | So far, so good. |
It's certainly not difficult to tell who's paying attention to what's actually happening, is it?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fairweather friend
Member
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 322 | TRs | Pics
Location: Not so dispersed |
Don't y'all worry about public road maintenance no more! Trump has got that figured out. From what I've read about his much ballyhooed "Infrastructure Plan," the basic idea is to deed our public roads, bridges, etc. over to private companies who will then charge us tolls to use them. If we're lucky, perhaps 5% of the toll money might be spent on maintenance. That counts as a "win," right?
What's a fair toll for FS 23? $10 each way?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Workman
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3699 | TRs | Pics
Location: In the woods, by the big tree |
| treeswarper wrote: | | n my neck of the woods, we seem to be down to just a half dozen roads that are maintained, and the 23 road has been out of use for a year. Other roads get maintained when a timber sale is in the area. |
The 23 road is out for a year??!! 
Where'd it wash out this time?
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Workman
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3699 | TRs | Pics
Location: In the woods, by the big tree |
| Ski wrote: | | The "Catch-22" there is that all NFS (and NPS) roads have to comply with established minimum standards, which cannot be done without regular maintenance.
Without the necessary funding for road maintenance, those roads become a liability, so the standard course of action for a couple decades has been do decommission them. |
Ski, what I'm saying is that decommissioning costs a bunch of money. Transfer that funding to maintenance, problem solved. That is, unless someone jacks up the cost of maintenance artificially to justify closing more roads.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Here's the answer to the big issue Dave's talking about. Along with stopping the decommission process, at the same time you remove any liability from the Forest Service for anything happening to people who CHOSE to recreate on said roads!
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
|
| Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:15 pm |
|
|
| Dave Workman wrote: | | treeswarper wrote: | | n my neck of the woods, we seem to be down to just a half dozen roads that are maintained, and the 23 road has been out of use for a year. Other roads get maintained when a timber sale is in the area. |
The 23 road is out for a year??!!
Where'd it wash out this time? |
It has been closed for a year now. Over a year ago, it washed out in a few places but the biggie is just past the North Fork campground, where it comes close to the river and climbs the hill. There was no funding to fix it. There might be some this year.
The 2801, on the other side of the river, has been kept closed to the public. Log hauling has been permitted on it.
We are losing our access without decommissioning.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
| Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:18 pm |
|
|
| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | Here's the answer to the big issue Dave's talking about. Along with stopping the decommission process, at the same time you remove any liability from the Forest Service for anything happening to people who CHOSE to recreate on said roads! |
So we let the roads close themselves? That's what happens here. The alder fill in the roads, the ditches and pipes fill up and the road washes out. Roads need maintenance--like trails and that takes funding.
Kind of like what the Fearless Leader said about health insurance--it's more complicated than you think.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:54 pm |
|
|
| BPJ wrote: | | "...at the same time you remove any liability from the Forest Service for anything happening to people who CHOSE to recreate on said roads!" |
It doesn't work that way with NFS or NPS. The agency assumes a responsibility for visitors by law. Roads have to comply with minimum standards.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike
Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 6398 | TRs | Pics
Location: SJIsl |
|
mike
Member
|
Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:28 pm |
|
|
I think the bigger issue is the damage done to the hydrology of the area by maintained and unmaintained roads. I was involved in lawsuits by going out and surveying this damage and it is very real.
I think that there are many/most roads which can and should be decommissioned without limiting access. All roads shouldn't have to be maintained to "county road" quality and they should be drive at your own risk. In the long run this would be cheaper.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Klapton
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 940 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Klapton
Member
|
Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:57 pm |
|
|
| treeswarper wrote: | | Backpacker Joe wrote: | | Government needs to be SMALLER in every aspect and on every level! |
Why and how? Do we get rid of the socialist snowplows? Gonna cut the Forest Service even more so no fire prevention work gets done and no crews can be hired to fight fire? Who ya gonna call when ALL agencies are cut and you need help?
It's a popular saying to cut the gubmint. The problem is when the pro cut folks are asked what to cut and how needed and wanted services are still to be delivered. It's much easier and requires no thinking to either post a meme or make a blanket statement. Reality is that we all like our roads, woods, and even services--like trail maintenance.
By the way, the Forest Service has been cut and hacked massively since the timber harvest shrank. I'm not sure they can take much more. The folks at the top will survive, but the worker bees will not be hired. |
Cut them off from coercive funding. Make every government agency into a non-profit organization or for-profit business. Allow competitors to start organizations to provide those services.
Things that actually NEED to be done WILL get done by people who want to make a living doing those things.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate NWHikers.net earns from qualifying purchases when you use our link(s). |
