Forum Index > Trail Talk > So I got bitten by a dog
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Schenk
Off Leash Man



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Schenk
Off Leash Man
PostThu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
What's with the big tough mountain climbers and big tough wilderness hikers being so fearful of pooches? The recent posts confirm that those with irrational fear of dogs are more likely to get bit by a dog. These threads are stoopid because it's folly to try to explain anything to irrationally fearful people. [/thread]
A lot of this thread is hooey, but this is a good question. Here is my speculation (pure speculation): 1) there are far more dogs on trails and in the woods than bears or big cats so there is simply more interaction, and therefore more people with strong opinions. 2) Dogs come with human owners. An interaction with an aggressive dog will nearly always lead to an interaction with a defensive, protective, and perhaps even more aggressive, dog owner. Humans are far more dangerous than any animal alone by itself and therein could lie the fear factor. The fear may be in having to deal with the owner + their dog...dogs can usually be shooed away, or scared off, if they are alone, but add the human owner and a dog may not back off. So the fear or anxiety factor is increased possibly due to having to deal with the 1-2 punch: 1st the dog, then owner. For the record, I really dig dogs. Really! They are the best! I would have one but I know that my lifestyle would not be the greatest for a dog. I spend weeks in the mountains in places that would not be good for a dog for one reason or another, and I would never leave a dog alone for an extended period of time...even with a dog sitter. When I have had a bad experience with a dog in the woods I have been able fend of nearly any dog without harming it. I do, however, go after the owner with both barrels (metaphorically speaking) as it is the owner who is poorly trained. Only once have I had to make physical contact with a dog and I was not happy to do it. Thank God the dog was not injured, just surprised by how quickly my boot could move. The owner got more than an earful...I think I successfully impressed upon them how important it is to take care of your dog in the woods. A dog that is aggressive with a human could also get aggressive with a forest creature that could tear it apart. A dog out of control is a failure on the owner's part.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Schroder
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 1:34 pm 
As a footnote to this discussion - I had the rabies vaccination series. It was 3 shots, 2 weeks apart and they hurt like hell. The only place that had them in the Puget Sound area was the King Co. Health Department and as I recall it was about $1500 ( a little more than 10 years ago).

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RumiDude
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 2:04 pm 
Schenk wrote:
A dog out of control is a failure on the owner's part.
And that's the bottom line here. The complaints are not about dogs per se, but dogs which are not in control. It is very common to see dogs which are not within sight of their owner. It doesn't matter how obedient the dog is, it is not under control if it is out of sight. And if it is within sight it is not under control unlessthe owner exercises that contron, which inextricably happens often. It's often said that a dog's aggressive behavior like barking, snarling, lunging, snapping, etc. Is just a dog instictuallly trying to protect its owner. Well then think of a parent with a young child seeing a dog bounding up the trail barking. Like Schenk, I like dogs. I have had several dogs. I have no irrational fear of them, but I do respect how even relatively small dogs can hurt a person badly. While in college I got a summer job reading gas and electric meters for the local utility company. They offered me a can of pepper spray which I initially turned down. It only took a few days to realize that pepper spray and an attention to canines was going to keep me from being severely injured over the summer. I managed to get bit only twice or so. I discovered most dogs don't like meter readers. So much for dogs fine tuned sense of dangerous humans. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Bootpathguy
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 2:18 pm 
Again, my complaints have been more about the dog's owners and not the dog. I still strongly believe, dogs should be left at home Confession ( I posted this a couple months ago ) "I'm A Liar I'm on record, several times on this forum, saying that I never have had, or ever will, have my dogs as hiking companions. Well, "never say never" and "there is a first time for everything" I'm now going on the record saying, "I will never have my dogs as hiking companions ever again" We do take our dogs on forest service road walks. That was our intention yesterday. Looking for a good spot off of hwy 2 west of the pass. My wife loves the Lake Serene trail and she convinced me to give it a shot with the dogs. ( In fact it was a argument and she won ) I'm convinced she tricked me into it wink.gif We, or should I say, "I" abandoned the plans of a forest service road walk and we did the trail up to Bridal Veil Falls 11 other dogs I counted and all unleashed. All of'em! 8 of ( well, all 11, but I'll get to the last 3 in a bit ) the dogs came into contact with us way before their owners did. Most just a friendly sniff, with a little bit of posturing from both sides. On all occasions we stepped off the trail, held our dogs close, a taut leash, to let the dogs and owners pass. One couple noticed our "step off the trail technique" and said, "Oh! Your dogs aren't dog friendly?" My wife shrugged it off and responded to their egotistical comment with a very friendly response. My response would have been very sarcastic and would have embarassed my wife. Don't people recognize simple courtesy these days!? Why do some folks have to turn it into something it isn't! Give some condescending comment to excuse the reason why they don't feel the need to leash their dogs. "Our dogs are dog friendly and yours aren't" f### You! 6 years separate our dogs. Oldest is 8 and the youngest is 2. Both females. At the dog parks, the oldest has started to show some protective display for the younger one. The oldest stays close to us and the youngest looks for a play mate. She has yelped a couple times in some rough dog play or will show submissive display to another dog. The oldest runs over to her and confronts the other with aggressive posturing. No dog fights yet, but I'm pretty confident if we weren't close, that wouldn't be the case. Anyway, now that you know that history, I'll get to the final 3 dogs. At the final approach to the falls, my wife leading the way with the youngest dog, another dog comes flying down the trail and screeches to a barking and snarling halt face to face with the youngest. Fearing a fight, my wife hanks on her leash and faces her down hill. Myself and the oldest are closely following. The oldest trying to frantically and aggressively get up trail to see what all the commotion is about. Suddenly 2 more dogs come down the trail and decide to join the barking and snarling party. Youngest has her back to all 3 now. The initial dog then decides to shove its nose up the youngest ones ass. Let the sh## storm commence! The youngest did not like that one single bit! She got faced back up hill and started to fight, leash wrapped around my wife's legs, I'm now wrapped up in the older dogs leash, my wife yelling, "WHOS DOGS ARE THESE!", "WHOS DOGS ARE THESE!" We are both twisting in circles to untangle ourselves on this narrow trail, retreating down the icey path, yanking on dog leashes, 3 dogs still advancing on our dogs, my wife is hysterical, our dogs now trying to advance on the 3, Im trying not to step on our dogs and injure them with my microspikes, dogs trying to get at each other and we are getting tangled back up in dog leashes. Dogs are periodically coming into contact with each other. My wife and I trying not to lose our balance and accidentally step off the trail into the deep snow and go tumbling down the slope. Complete chaos! I finally see two 2 gals and one guy slip sliding down the path towards all this aggressive, out of control, commotion. By this time Im fed up and pissed. Very pissed! Irrationally pissed! I grab my wife's arm and aggressively yank her down the trail and behind me ( sorry Sweetie ) Untwist, untangle and step over leashes. Grab both leashes and yank both dogs heads downhill towards me. I said, "Irrationally Pissed!?" Cuz I was! Because this is where Im feeling that this isn't a fair fight and I ( again, aggressively) yanked off both collars ( Sorry Pups ) Leash and all. The youngest one yelped because I caused pain to her ears Not what I expected at all. And honestly, in my rage, not what I was hoping, because I know both dogs would have opened up a big can of "Whoop Ass" on those 3. I was expecting alot of blood and pretty outrageous vet bill buy the time this was over. But the unexpected happened. Both dogs ( ours ) stayed put, postured up, stood shoulder to shoulder and the 3 antagonist retreated and trotted back up hill to their owners who were in a uncontrolled and frantic descent down the slippery trail calling for their dogs. I got both our dogs leased again and we headed down trail to where we had enough room to step well off the main path. We were checking our dogs for wounds as that party passed us. They apologized but didn't bother to come back into the forest where we were assessing potential wounds. I was still in a kneeling position checking over the oldest. My wife was standing. I looked up and apologized for yanking her down hill. She just stared at me for a few seconds and said, "dog friendly". I giggled and we continued on and finished our hike."

Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 4:18 pm 
Hiker454 wrote:
appeals to emotion rather than discussion
Examples:
Hiker454 wrote:
So shooting bad dogs would remove them from the gene pool right?
Hiker454 wrote:
And when the owner is calm even where their dog is barking aggressively, lunging and showing it's teeth? What then? Is it the victims fault also?

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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?



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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
PostThu Feb 23, 2017 6:27 pm 
Hope to see you on the trail!
DSC_5750
DSC_5750

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MyFootHurts
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 7:00 pm 
What sort of nut thinks "dogs are good judges of peoples' character"? I guess they think all those toddlers who get mauled to death by pitbulls deserved it because they were bad people.

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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 7:25 pm 
MyFootHurts wrote:
What sort of nut thinks "dogs are good judges of peoples' character"?
Nobody on this thread said that.

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MyFootHurts
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 7:36 pm 
DIYSteve wrote:
MyFootHurts wrote:
What sort of nut thinks "dogs are good judges of peoples' character"?
Nobody on this thread said that.
I just read all 8 pages. Several people said that about their dogs.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 7:56 pm 
An' a kitty thrown in for good measure!

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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hikersarenumber1
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 9:01 pm 
Bootpathguy wrote:
Again, my complaints have been more about the dog's owners and not the dog. I still strongly believe, dogs should be left at home Confession ( I posted this a couple months ago ) "I'm A Liar I'm on record, several times on this forum, saying that I never have had, or ever will, have my dogs as hiking companions. Well, "never say never" and "there is a first time for everything" I'm now going on the record saying, "I will never have my dogs as hiking companions ever again" We do take our dogs on forest service road walks. That was our intention yesterday. Looking for a good spot off of hwy 2 west of the pass. My wife loves the Lake Serene trail and she convinced me to give it a shot with the dogs. ( In fact it was a argument and she won ) I'm convinced she tricked me into it wink.gif We, or should I say, "I" abandoned the plans of a forest service road walk and we did the trail up to Bridal Veil Falls 11 other dogs I counted and all unleashed. All of'em! 8 of ( well, all 11, but I'll get to the last 3 in a bit ) the dogs came into contact with us way before their owners did. Most just a friendly sniff, with a little bit of posturing from both sides. On all occasions we stepped off the trail, held our dogs close, a taut leash, to let the dogs and owners pass. One couple noticed our "step off the trail technique" and said, "Oh! Your dogs aren't dog friendly?" My wife shrugged it off and responded to their egotistical comment with a very friendly response. My response would have been very sarcastic and would have embarassed my wife. Don't people recognize simple courtesy these days!? Why do some folks have to turn it into something it isn't! Give some condescending comment to excuse the reason why they don't feel the need to leash their dogs. "Our dogs are dog friendly and yours aren't" f### You! 6 years separate our dogs. Oldest is 8 and the youngest is 2. Both females. At the dog parks, the oldest has started to show some protective display for the younger one. The oldest stays close to us and the youngest looks for a play mate. She has yelped a couple times in some rough dog play or will show submissive display to another dog. The oldest runs over to her and confronts the other with aggressive posturing. No dog fights yet, but I'm pretty confident if we weren't close, that wouldn't be the case. Anyway, now that you know that history, I'll get to the final 3 dogs. At the final approach to the falls, my wife leading the way with the youngest dog, another dog comes flying down the trail and screeches to a barking and snarling halt face to face with the youngest. Fearing a fight, my wife hanks on her leash and faces her down hill. Myself and the oldest are closely following. The oldest trying to frantically and aggressively get up trail to see what all the commotion is about. Suddenly 2 more dogs come down the trail and decide to join the barking and snarling party. Youngest has her back to all 3 now. The initial dog then decides to shove its nose up the youngest ones ass. Let the sh## storm commence! The youngest did not like that one single bit! She got faced back up hill and started to fight, leash wrapped around my wife's legs, I'm now wrapped up in the older dogs leash, my wife yelling, "WHOS DOGS ARE THESE!", "WHOS DOGS ARE THESE!" We are both twisting in circles to untangle ourselves on this narrow trail, retreating down the icey path, yanking on dog leashes, 3 dogs still advancing on our dogs, my wife is hysterical, our dogs now trying to advance on the 3, Im trying not to step on our dogs and injure them with my microspikes, dogs trying to get at each other and we are getting tangled back up in dog leashes. Dogs are periodically coming into contact with each other. My wife and I trying not to lose our balance and accidentally step off the trail into the deep snow and go tumbling down the slope. Complete chaos! I finally see two 2 gals and one guy slip sliding down the path towards all this aggressive, out of control, commotion. By this time Im fed up and pissed. Very pissed! Irrationally pissed! I grab my wife's arm and aggressively yank her down the trail and behind me ( sorry Sweetie ) Untwist, untangle and step over leashes. Grab both leashes and yank both dogs heads downhill towards me. I said, "Irrationally Pissed!?" Cuz I was! Because this is where Im feeling that this isn't a fair fight and I ( again, aggressively) yanked off both collars ( Sorry Pups ) Leash and all. The youngest one yelped because I caused pain to her ears Not what I expected at all. And honestly, in my rage, not what I was hoping, because I know both dogs would have opened up a big can of "Whoop Ass" on those 3. I was expecting alot of blood and pretty outrageous vet bill buy the time this was over. But the unexpected happened. Both dogs ( ours ) stayed put, postured up, stood shoulder to shoulder and the 3 antagonist retreated and trotted back up hill to their owners who were in a uncontrolled and frantic descent down the slippery trail calling for their dogs. I got both our dogs leased again and we headed down trail to where we had enough room to step well off the main path. We were checking our dogs for wounds as that party passed us. They apologized but didn't bother to come back into the forest where we were assessing potential wounds. I was still in a kneeling position checking over the oldest. My wife was standing. I looked up and apologized for yanking her down hill. She just stared at me for a few seconds and said, "dog friendly". I giggled and we continued on and finished our hike."
This almost reads as a good reason to keep dogs OFF leash. Actually, when my dog was younger and less reliable I kept him on a leash most of the time, but would release him in sketchy spots for both his and my safety. You now know that your dogs act aggressively to unleashed dogs...

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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 10:01 pm 
hikersarenumber1 wrote:
You now know that your dogs act aggressively to unleashed dogs...
The issue was that the other dogs were not under control and his dogs were. As has been pointed out several times in the thread, the real culprits are not the dogs but the dog owners who fail to control their animals. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 10:11 pm 
MyFootHurts wrote:
I just read all 8 pages. Several people said that about their dogs.
No they didn't. People accurately said that dogs can sense threats or anxiety. The science suggests that dogs do so through smelling pheromones. Nobody said that dogs can judge human character. You made that up.

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NWtrax
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 10:14 pm 
Come on already, I ran out of popcorn days ago. suuure.gif

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contour5
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 11:10 pm 
Some dogs are psychic, and know what you are thinking before you do. But those dogs are uniformly polite, intelligent and well behaved- quite unlike the howling shitgibbon security dog wannabes that so frequently menace hikers on our trails. I find that a really maniacal bluff charge, with pole held high for a downward thrust, accompanied by loud, incomprehensible cursing and shouting will usually clear the trail of a menacing canine. I say usually because I've only recently developed the technique, and although it has worked flawlessly so far, I have yet to try it out on a really dangerous large dog, like a german shepherd, or a small, fast, vicious dog like a pit bull. I'm always happy to meet nice dogs, and I'll try to go around a mean one if I can, but I will not tolerate a menacing dog blocking me on a hiking trail. I felt like I got suckered into being a victim too many times, after dozens and dozens of really frightening and unpleasant standoffs with large, vicious, unaccompanied dogs. The subsequent post terror discussions with the negligent owners have been almost without exception, utterly infuriating and unsatisfactory.

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