Forum Index > Trail Talk > Potential for some very big avalanches now and looking forward
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gb
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 7:59 am 
It ain't over yet. Deep slab avalanches (down to the crust from mid-February) can release several days after a period of warming. During warm periods the upper layers of the snowpack are more or less plastic, as stress is redistributed through the pack, the weak layer can continue to fail. Or cornices can fall. The South Cascades warmed Thursday PM and have cooled slightly today. Precip continued until early this morning. The North Cascades only warmed to 5000-5500' (to freezing) thus far but that changes tonight and Monday with warming to 8000' with loading of new snow and then rain. The really big avalanches from higher elevation terrain will be increasingly likely. While the highest probability will be Monday-Tuesday for these slides, the risk will continue until at least Wednesday with the warm temperatures and continued stress redistribution. A glance at Roger's Pass shows that there have already been a few Class 4 avalanches that have run full path. The Cascades should have the same issue. The problem is regional from Oregon, likely east to SLC and Jackson and north and east to the Coast Range and Northern Rockies of BC. Watch exposure (low probability, certain consequences) to paths even in valley bottoms as the lower paths have enough snow cover from the cold winter.

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ale_capone
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:07 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Snoqualmie and White Passes are now open. Things are not noisy enough for White to be the only pass open. When that happens, I can hear a constant roar at my house from all the trucks.
Funny. I can usually tell when I 90 is closed because of the increased, prohibited, engine braking noise I hear from home... Or when hwy 2 is closed because of the complete lack of traffic noise...Slept like a baby Thursday. I can hear the trains low rumble from about 5 miles, feel it from 2... my girlfriend tires of my "train!" Alerts. And somewhat tell the weather by how loud the river is. The clearer the sound(of the sky), the clearer and calmer the sky. Or, you just hear wind and rain. Then I let my dog out, make coffee, let her back in and do the fur weather check. Wet dog? Raining... Cold dog? ...Freezing. hair standing up all over dog? ... Critter. Look out the front window at Mt index for the cloud and snow levels sipping coffee. Ten minutes into my day, I've got a traffic and weather report without even internetting.

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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:16 am 
I remember a similar cycle a few years ago. There was a few days of very large, unpredictable avalanches. The big path from the top of little plugs west face ran huge all the way down to surprise creek, up the other side, and down the creek a few hundred yards. Taking with it some big trees. Leaving huge debris piles in what one might think is safe... Similar events happened on nimbus, thunder, lichtenberg. Over these few days.. randomly, natural, deadly sized. I was communicating with nwac about the events at the time, and was reflected in the reports.

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ale_capone
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:21 am 
http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=30614.0 It was during the same time of year, end of February, early March, 2014. There are some photos from the bottom of the path several posts down.

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gb
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:51 am 
ale_capone wrote:
http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=30614.0 It was during the same time of year, end of February, early March, 2014. There are some photos from the bottom of the path several posts down.
You just reminded me to look at my photos from an airplane flight in a friend's Cessna just after the cycle that took out Crystal's lift in Mid-March 2014. The biggest crowns were the ones at Crystal, those near Stevens, and one that took out the entire upper snowfield of Monte Cristo and dropped to the valley bottom of Cadet Creek. But somewhere in my archives (not digital) we took a similar flight avalanche watching a number of years back. There was a crown of 20-25' on Heliotrope, a 12-15' crown a quarter of a mile wide below Big Chiwaukum and the grand daddy of them all off the north face of the Black Buttes that went as a 10+ foot crown at 8000+ and travelled about 3 miles to the 2800' level in a river valley just east of Twin Sisters. It flowed for about 1/2 mile through old growth forest. I doubt an avalanche had ever reached that far down in the drainage before.

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trestle
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:57 am 
I would love to see those pics, gb, if you ever have a chance scan or digitize them in some way.

"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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gb
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 9:19 am 
trestle wrote:
I would love to see those pics, gb, if you ever have a chance scan or digitize them in some way.
The ones in 2014 were "disappointing" as there were not as many as I would have guessed but there are good aerial shots of Crystal's famous avalanches. Trestle, send me an e-mail address by PM and I'll send you those (2014) and you can upload them. Meanwhile, I'll have to look and find the really awesome avalanche cycle images from (?). I have a scanner but haven't used it for awhile and I'll have to look through my slide books to find them.

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Chief Joseph
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 9:28 am 
I plan to return to wwa Tuesday and am trying to decide whether to take Snoqualmie or Stevens pass. I typically take Stevens as there is less traffic and it's a more direct route to My place out past Granite falls. I really hate to take Snoqualmie and go through Seattle on a weekday as I typically arrive there around rush hour, so then I usually go north from north bend to monroe. The forecast calls for about 35 degrees on stevens and 43 on snoqualmie, in your opinion which route should be safer avalanche wise? With 35 degrees I would think ice should not be much of an issue, yet still very possible.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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moonspots
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 12:03 pm 
ale_capone wrote:
Look out the front window at Mt index for the cloud and snow levels sipping coffee. Ten minutes into my day, I've got a traffic and weather report without even internetting.
up.gif Cool method!

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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treeswarper
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PostSun Mar 12, 2017 1:09 pm 
ale_capone wrote:
Funny. I can usually tell when I 90 is closed because of the increased, prohibited, engine braking noise I hear from home... Or when hwy 2 is closed because of the complete lack of traffic noise...Slept like a baby Thursday.
When the gorge, Stevens and Snoqualmie were closed, the roar of trucks woke me up. I don't live near the highway, but can hear occasional jake brakes and the rumble strip noise. We were the only northern east west route. I try to figure out how to profit by it, but one can't plan so other than opening a hot dog stand in a big parking area with potties, my imagination can't figure anything out.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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gb
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PostFri Mar 17, 2017 9:19 pm 
Meanwhile in Canada: High-High-High:
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Another pulse of snow coming through Saturday although forecast amounts have shrunk somewhat. Expect 20 to 30cm with moderate to strong alpine winds and freezing levels to 2000m. This means rain will fall at lower elevations. On Sunday precipitation will taper off with moderate alpine winds and temperatures will drop off to -15 to 18C. Snowpack Discussion 30-60cm of recent storm snow and wind have built significant load over a fundamentally weak snowpack. The mix of previous rain, warm temperatures, and this new snow is overloading buried storm and windslabs, as well as the weak basal facet layers. Cooling Friday helped curb natural activity, but only slightly Avalanche Activity Discussion A flight up Hwy. 93N today showed the extent of the avalanche carnage up to size 4 on all aspects and elevations. Some fracture lines are over 1km wide. Explosive control at the ski hills and on Hwy 93 South produced large results up to size 3.5 stepping down to the deep Dec. facets or the ground showing it is still extremely sensitive out there.
One Selkirk avalanche had 3.5 M crown, ran 1200 VM, and had debris as deep as 28M.

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gb
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PostSun Mar 19, 2017 7:14 am 
The top part of the Cascade snowpack may still be unstable......the top 1". Crampons or ice skates with a temperature in the teens?

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Riverside Laker
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PostSun Mar 19, 2017 7:53 pm 
When did the yuuuuuge avalanche on Granite Mtn come down? It's one of the most impressive debris I've seen. Looked like a climax avalanche.

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zephyr
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PostSun Mar 19, 2017 10:03 pm 
Riverside Laker wrote:
When did the yuuuuuge avalanche on Granite Mtn come down? It's one of the most impressive debris I've seen. Looked like a climax avalanche.
We had a discussion about it in page two of this thread. RichP had posted a link to a WTA article. Six days ago a party took photos and also posted a video. They surmised that it had occurred the previous week. Here's their video from the WTA post unfortunately shot in portrait mode. ~z

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PostMon Mar 20, 2017 12:45 pm 
As I commented on the TR referenced by this thread, my guess is that slide (and several others) occurred during the avy cycle which began during the afternoon of Thurs. 3/9. I was skiing at Alpental that morning and not only was the snow increasingly reactive, but WSDOT shut WB 90 down by 11:30 due to what I'd heard was a natural release on Granite's south side which reached the highway. There was then a round of control work which produced massive-sounding results and noticeable debris cleared off the roadway when WB finally reopened after 3. I triggered a D1 storm slab, roughly 150' wide by 8-10" deep while cutting across a knoll in the lower back bowls (formerly "Alpental backcountry"). Elevator gate was open that morning and I think it should've been closed by the afternoon but with the insanity of highway closures and rapid loading + warming, they shut most of the mountain down at noon anyways.

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