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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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 Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:46 am |
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| Mtn Goat wrote: | | See the bolded portion for another example of the "disdain from a distance" I alluded to in the first place. You simply don't give a rip what people who actually live near what you want controlled, want. If this isn't disdain, I don't know what is. You don't care what they want, you explicitly and specifically state that... and that's disdain if nothing else. |
Thanks for clarifying that. I'll give you credit for attempting to make me wrong. 
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:49 pm |
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Yes, nothing shows a lack of disdain like explicity stating you don't give a rip.
Simply denying you've been caught doesn't uncatch you. 
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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| treeswarper wrote: | | Yes, and you certainly don't understand or know the small ecosystems like some locals do. Yes, you have a say and cuz there's more of you voters that don't know the land, you get to have all the say. Understand yet? |
Like many non locals, many locals can be completely ignorant about the land. Some may not even know what public lands surround them.
So no, being local is not an automatic cloak of knowledge.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Seventy2002
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Tom
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Tom
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Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:40 pm |
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Locals? I thought the local Native American tribes support the designation.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:50 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | Thanks for clarifying that. I'll give you credit for attempting to make me wrong. |
There is no wrong here
Local folks consider it their backyard just like Seattle folks now think that close in heavily used areas are their back yard. What would you do if the rest of the country voted to turn Puget Sound into a wilderness? You would lose your job....you'd have to move.
That's the only anology I can think of. I realize I'm outnumbered and hated, but you folks seldom give any credit to people who happen to think differently or have different experiences and speak up about it.
It was the local folks who worked in the woods. Note the was. Before you pipe up , I realize it isn't going to happen again. But the local folks used to be scattered about, working, and were extra eyes and bodies out there. They were the ones to clean out the culverts--who had equipment to do that and fix roads. They were often the ones who pulled you out of a ditch or gave you a ride to get assistance ( your phone won't work out there). They were the ones to see a smoke before it turned into an inferno.
That won't happen anymore. You may feel good about yourselves again. You've made a difference.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:02 am |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | It was the local folks who worked in the woods. Note the was. |
Yeah and if Spotted Owl and Marbled Murrelet designations, resulting lawsuits and resulting logging restrictions hadn't happened a few decades ago, those timber jobs would still all be gone now, with all the large trees cut and shipped off to Japan as raw logs.
Of course the upside is that now you'd be far less plagued by millenial hippsters driving out into the woods in grandma's Subaru to take selfies with those large trees in the background.
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:12 am |
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That's worth avoiding right there.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:00 pm |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | "... you've been caught..." |
errr... yeah okay...
I guess if it makes you feel special, that's a good thing.
carry on.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:36 am |
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| Ski wrote: | | MtnGoat wrote: | | "... you've been caught..." |
errr... yeah okay...
I guess if it makes you feel special, that's a good thing.
carry on. |
I work to avoid rolling my feelings into these arguments, thanks. I don't need to 'feel' any particular way, just keeping a discussion honest.
Not being able to see your utter disregard for the folks whose lives, jobs, and homes which you support interference with, leads to the sort of outcome you wound up with in 2016.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:38 am |
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| Doppelganger wrote: | | Sounds like Zinke is taking over the anti-Ears crusade, might be setting his sights on Grand Escalante too. Guess I would be in a hurry to get back into the private sector too if I was Chaffetz, it's going to start raining $$$ soon in Utah! |
And hopefully, getting some uranium, gas, oil into production to boot.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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joker
seeker
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joker
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:41 am |
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:56 am |
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I'm sure it's whoopee for the folks getting jobs, yes.
No one is arguing for a return to the 19th century practices of dig n run.
And the many little people who benefit everywhere is anyone using any energy sources obtained there. All things being equal, more supply puts downward pressure on price. As shown by frackers breaking OPEC, there is now in essence a price *ceiling* on petroleum production.Try to turn off the mideast taps, prices rise to open $ sensitive marginal plays,and bingo, supply flows.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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joker
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joker
seeker
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:13 am |
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Big anti-whoopee to the many people who have benefitted since the '90s designation of GSENM. E.g. here's a comment from a local (see linked letter for their full comments):
| Quote: | | In fact, the monument has improved the economy in neighboring areas to the point where personal per capita income over the past six years in Garfield County has outperformed the Utah average. I have visited Escalante many times over the last decade, and I have seen many economic gains. In the past few years, a beautiful new clinic has opened with a pharmacy and dental care facilities. Furthermore, there are markets, motels, restaurants, outfitters, tour services and a huge new home store.
Those who wish to reduce the size of the monument claim that 81 jobs have been lost due to the monument’s establishment in 1996. The argument that jobs have been lost fails to mention the many jobs gained. The monument’s neighboring communities have experienced an economic transition, leaving behind one based on ranching/agriculture and resource extraction to an economy that benefits greatly from increased tourism.
The Escalante Chamber of Commerce reports that the area is experiencing an economic boom. Businesses are reporting record years. In fact, finding enough people to fill jobs has become a problem as there is limited long-term rental housing available, and the cost of buying a house is becoming difficult for some due to increased housing values and limited supply. |
Also:
| Quote: | | Our Utah representatives are failing to accurately represent the residents of Southern Utah. They do not represent the businesses benefiting from Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. Campaign funding suggests that our politicians do represent something — the oil, gas, and mining industries that seek to carve up and profit from our public lands. |
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drm
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Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 pm |
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The transition from a resource economy to a tourism economy is fraught with difficulty. Unless you get to be some kind of outdoor guide, moving from working the land to working in a hotel or restaurant is not necessarily a welcome change. And not everybody is happy mixing with people from a very different culture.
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