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alpendave
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PostTue Jun 06, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Tranquility (or some similar concept). Like when you break away from the din and noise of everyday life to enjoy (at least to some degree) whatever noise nature provides.

I'm inclined to think that it is a right. Within reason at least. Which is why while I can tolerate the laughter of kids having a grand time, or even a mellow campfire song, but get really annoyed by people who play their electronic sound emitting devices at places set aside for the enjoyment of nature.

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Like a ray of sunshine in a drought stricken land.

What we do does far more than what we think others ought to do. Inspiration is a far greater power for good than coercion. In your own life, show others the good that you wish to see in the world.
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drm
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PostTue Jun 06, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Most cities have decibel limits in residential areas and campgrounds have quiet hours. But the legal protection against excessive noise is very location-dependent so technically I don't think it is a right per se. It's probably not too far above and beyond to say you have a right not to be harassed by excessive noise but I'm not sure that is the same as a right to tranquility. But you do have a reasonable expectation to tranquility in the backcountry, whatever that means.
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Ski
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PostTue Jun 06, 2017 7:36 pm 
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No, unfortunately, it is not a "right" per se.
It is, however, as drm points out, a reasonable expectation to believe one should be able to find tranquilty and quiet in the backcountry.

We are pummeled with noise of all sorts daily, in rural areas, and more so in urban areas. As I write this at 8:30 pm on a Tuesday night, I can hear the faint roar of a neighbor's lawnmower.
The only thing breaking the usual dead quiet at night here for the last 20 years has been the BNSF line drivers chugging up the grade out of the tideflats and into the Ruston tunnel, or the blast of their air horns when they're flying northbound up along Titlow beach. A new neighbor just installed an air-conditioning unit in one of the apartments next door, so now I am hearing some sort of machine running 24/7. Did I mention I'm right under the flight paths of both Joint Base Lewis-McChord and westbound flights out of SeaTac?

This is a real hot button for me, which is why you see me incessantly complaining about the noise from the Whidbey Island Navy jet fighters running practice flights over the Olympics.
Can we not have any place where we are not subjected to the constant din of human civilization? Does every little spot on the planet have to remind of us about all of our wonderful technological achievements?

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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alpendave
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PostTue Jun 06, 2017 8:46 pm 
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By right, I was speaking more in idealistic terms than legal terms. But ski has illustrated exactly why it is to keep natural areas like state parks and such as sanctuaries (so to speak) where people can escape from all that without having the experience needlessly encroached upon by certain aspects of our technological existence.

What inspired this post was walking down to my neighbor's beach (King Spit just south of Bangor) one recent evening and just taking it in and contemplating just how fortunate I am to live in the neighborhood I do. I'm very thankful for that, but the thought hit me that everyone should be able to expect the same whenever they visit a place set aside for that purpose.

Hell im tired and should get some sleep. I have a feeling that when I read this tomorrow I'm going to cringe at my inept self-expression. Then maybe not.

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Like a ray of sunshine in a drought stricken land.

What we do does far more than what we think others ought to do. Inspiration is a far greater power for good than coercion. In your own life, show others the good that you wish to see in the world.
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Ski
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PostTue Jun 06, 2017 11:36 pm 
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alpendave wrote:
Hell im tired and should get some sleep.

My plans to drive up to Kalaloch today went down the commode when I came down with some sort of flu thing yesterday and I'm sick as hell, so I'm not playing with a full deck here.

I don't think your self expression is inept at all - I think you raise a valid point that seems to get lost in the morass of all of the other things that we talk, complain, or pontificate about - off-leash dogs, plastic bags full of poop left hanging from trailside branches, idiots building fires at upland lakes where they're not supposed to, ad nauseum.

I think it's a quality of life issue. I expect, reasonably, I should add, to be able to experience quiet when I'm a fair distance away from a trailhead or road. Again, we're bombarded with noise all day, every day, in our normal lives. I guess some people are okay with that. I'm not - it makes me crazy to have noise all the time. I have enough noise in my head already - I don't need more.
They've done all kinds of studies about the impacts of noise on wild animals. Noise stresses them out, and they don't breed normally. They abandon areas they formerly used as habitat.
Why would anyone think humans would not suffer some detrimental effects from noise?

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 4:55 am 
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The birds are very noisy early in the morning here so I'm thinking the only place to get quiet would be in a sound proof room or down in a cave.

I don't mind the birds.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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alpendave
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 5:43 am 
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I do mind my neighbor's rooster. Even thought of hiring Colonel Sanders to do a Kentucky Fried hit job.

I know some might argue that quietude and tranquility are not neeeds for everyone in the same way that food is. I think it likely is, but some people prefer to subsist off of Twinkies.

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Like a ray of sunshine in a drought stricken land.

What we do does far more than what we think others ought to do. Inspiration is a far greater power for good than coercion. In your own life, show others the good that you wish to see in the world.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 6:13 am 
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Appreciate what you have.

Something as quiet as a rooster or a chainsaw would fade into the background around my apartment in Harlem.  Fire trucks, police sirens, helicopters, jackhammers,  garbage trucks, "stereo wars", train whistles and drunken arguments are all part of the "sound fabric" 24/7 here.
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treeswarper
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 6:19 am 
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Google The Red Green Show.  Listen to the background sounds in the introduction.  That's what living in "the country" is like on a weekend.  Gunshots, chainsaws, dogs and occasionally an illegally driven ATV.  Oh, and sheep, chickens, cows, etc who are hungry or upset.  It is never quiet, but much preferable to the bass thumping of a badly behaving teenager.   There was one of those across the street in one town I lived in and the dishes in my cupboards would rattle from his "music".  That was maddening.  That's why people become violent.   That's why headphones for music are a good thing.

The wild birds are extremely noisy at dawn.  That's a cheery thing because it means the winter is over. up.gif

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RandyHiker
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 7:00 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
That's what living in "the country" is like on a weekend.  Gunshots, chainsaws, dogs and occasionally an illegally driven ATV.  Oh, and sheep, chickens, cows, etc who are hungry or upset.  It is never quiet, but much preferable to the bass thumping of a badly behaving teenager. 

Hey I understand all that.  We visited some friends in western MA after living in Harlem for six months.  I was amazed to find the sound of a neighbor firing up a chainsaw was pleasant background sound compared the constant onslaught of sound in Harlem.

Chirping birds at 5AM got nothing on a fire truck.

ATVs. We get them here in packs of a dozen or more.  Razzing down the avenues, pulling wheelies for many blocks, sometimes with a pack of police cars chasing them with sirens blaring.
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mike
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 7:31 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
The birds are very noisy early in the morning

Yeah, same here. We sleep with the windows open and they've been waking me up at 4am with their raucous chatter. It's great to just lay there and listen.
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drm
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 7:46 am 
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I have a friend who lives in a rural (semi-rural?) area outside of Hood River. One neighbor put in a bunch of roosters that wake everybody up at 4am and seems to think that's country life. Another neighbor doesn't think so and is exacting revenge with a loud stereo. My friend is in a triangle with both and so now suffers doubly. I told her she should move to the city for some peace and quiet. Not like Randy's city. No roosters where I live, sirens are rare, and if anybody plays stereo after a certain hour, you can call the cops. But since I'm out backpacking most weekends in the summer, I wouldn't know about Saturday night noise.

So are a bevy of rolicking roosters something you are just expected to tolerate outside of the city?
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alpendave
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 8:12 am 
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I hope everyone realizes the rooster comment was, well...not to be taken seriously. And since we heat primarily with wood, that saw in the background may as well be mine.

A lot of those things are just necessary everyday aspects of life. A far cry from the [insert prefered epithet here] that deliberately trying to annoy or merely wants to listen to something (usually loud music) regardless of the fact that many come to that location to escape. And the context of the original post was more about areas set aside for the enjoyment of nature. At home it is expected that things will be different. People have to get things done.

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Like a ray of sunshine in a drought stricken land.

What we do does far more than what we think others ought to do. Inspiration is a far greater power for good than coercion. In your own life, show others the good that you wish to see in the world.
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treeswarper
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 9:19 am 
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But an area doesn't need to be set aside.  I can wander into "industrial forest land" and it will be quiet, because the road is gated and no areas are slated for any work at this time.  The same goes for the National Forest--you just wander off the beaten path, follow an elk trail and you'll find it to be quiet until the Navy flies by at a low altitude around 11AM.   smile.gif  There usually aren't any more flights after that. smile.gif   They gotta practice somewhere.

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Kim Brown
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PostWed Jun 07, 2017 9:29 am 
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Ski wrote:
My plans to drive up to Kalaloch today went down the commode

So you were discommoded? (that is a real word!)

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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