Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Iron Crystal Vegetation Management Project GPNF June 12, 2017
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Ski
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PostMon Jun 12, 2017 4:27 pm 
District Ranger Gar Abbas is requesting your input on the proposed Iron Crystal vegetation management and restoration opportunities described in his letter available on the Forest's project website. https://www.fs.usda.gov/projects/giffordpinchot/landmanagement/projects Individuals or organizations wishing to comment are requested to do so between June 9, 2017 and July 9, 2017. Please provide the following information as part of your comments: - Name and address; - Title of the proposed action. (Iron Crystal); - Specific comments on the proposed action, along with supporting reasons that the Responsible Official should consider in reaching a decision; - Signature or other verification of identity upon request. Comments can be mailed to: District Ranger Gar Abbas, Cowlitz Valley Ranger District, PO Box 670, Randle, WA 98377 Electronic comments should be in a common digital format and sent to: comments-pacificnorthwest-giffordpinchot-cowlitzvalley@fs.fed.us. To ensure that they are considered, hand-delivered comments must be received at the Cowlitz Valley Ranger Station during normal business hours from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Send facsimiles to: 360-497-1102. For additional information on the project, please contact Team Leader and District Silviculturist James Donahey at jdonahey@fs.fed.us or by calling 360-497-1132. Thank you for your interest in our national forest. -GPNF-

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostSun Jul 09, 2017 7:13 am 
Because I needed to be away from the house for a bit, I drove up to the Mosquito Meadows area. I was pleasantly surprised to see that trees had been cut as part of a timber sale. It was a heavy cut, and I'm thinking that we will see some good berry picking in those units in the future, especially if the leave trees blow over. There weren't many leave trees left and the ones still standing--looked like silver fir, have narrow crowns. Keep fingers crossed.

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PostSun Jul 09, 2017 7:18 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
I was pleasantly surprised to see that trees had been cut as part of a timber sale
More berries!

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Ski
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PostSun Jul 09, 2017 9:55 pm 
there are two hours left before the comment period ends. two hours and six minutes, exactly. or as Spock would say: "two point zero eight hours".

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 1:32 am 
Ski 30% canopy cover on huckleberry berry areas: Is there some survey the USFS has done that says this is a break point for many people aesthetically?

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 6:19 am 
A total of 187 acres is proposed to be treated as part of this project for "huckleberry enhancement". Canopy retention on those units is supposed to be 15% - 30%. The reason, as explained to me - as near as I can recall - is that that the optimum output for huckleberries is in areas where the canopy cover is within that range. Personally I find the explanation bizarre, but I'm not a silviculturalist, just a layman. My comment regarding that part of the project: In regard to the “huckleberry enhancement” part of the project, I am puzzled, even after Mr. Donahey’s detailed explanation, as to why canopy retention numbers would be in the 15% – 30% range. I am disappointed that the Gifford Pinchot National Forest has not yet made any significant efforts to restore and/or create more huckleberry habitat by means of regeneration harvesting or controlled burning. We know that Native Americans burned relentlessly all up and down the Cascade Crest for at least the last 3500 years, so it follows logically that any effort or attempt to recreate “historic conditions” should include either swaths of clearcuts, or controlled burns.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 7:04 am 
When my bug bites have healed up from Saturday night's wearing of the shorts to a neighborhood function, (we have a swamp in our "hood") I will return to Mosquito Meadows and get some pictures. I need to manufacture more blood to replace what was sucked out. There is a fancy schmancy gauge you can get to hold up and take tree canopy percentage, but I can't even remember what it is called, nor have I used one. Stay tuned. I'll check the forestry equipment sites.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 am 
Here it is. Crown %

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 8:57 am 
Burning is why there was oak-prairie from now JBLM to Toledo. A few remnant Ponderosa from this regime are on base, and favored by the Western Grey squirrels. I'd have fallen over once if you'd told me there were any Ponderosa that weren't hand planted in Puget Sound.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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treeswarper
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 10:18 am 
[quote="Pyrites"]Burning is why there was oak-prairie from now JBLM to Toledo. A few remnant Ponderosa from this regime are on base, and favored by the Western Grey squirrels. I'd have fallen over once if you'd told me there were any Ponderosa that weren't hand planted in Puget Sounan I'd learned of this a few years ago. It is known as Willamette Valley Pine and there are a few mature pines along "old 99" by the fairgrounds at Dallas, Or. I planted 5 on my property the year of the drought. They grew like crazy. They are still growing, although the one I call Timmy has some support problems. Was pondering things whilst on my morning walk and wondering if berries need fire. The area at Mosquito Basin will not be broadcast burned as far as I know. The ground looked pretty scarified. The old plantations that I used to pick in were broadcast burned because that was what was done to make the area easy to plant trees in. So I am curious whether fire is needed to encourage the brush or whether it matters. Or what running machinery over the ground will do. The old way was to use high lead and skyline yarders to log which was easier on the soils. The Mosquito area has been skidded by cat or skidder. So many questions.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 12:00 pm 
Pyrites wrote:
Burning is why there was oak-prairie from now JBLM to Toledo.
Early native American burning transformed the landscape all across the continent, as I've cited in innumerable threads on this site. The American Plain (between DuPont and the Roy-McKenna area) is just one example of an artificially created, man-made landscape created by repeated burning over millennia. The same is true of the Ozette and Forks Prairies up on the Olympic Peninsula. Ironically, we are spending boatloads of money and time doing everything humanly possible to maintain and preserve endemic life forms that adapted to those man-made landscapes, but at the same time failing to continue the activities that created those landscapes in the first place. (Although on a very limited scale some burning has been done on JBLM.) For reasons which defy explanation, and run contrary to all common sense and reason, some people still cling to the mythical notion that the entire continent in pre-Columbian times was covered coast to coast with lush verdant uncompromised forest, and yet nothing could be further from the truth. This nonsensical management practice has resulted in forest lands more prone to disease, attacks by insects, and catastrophic wildfires of a type not seen during our recorded history. As treeswarper has repeatedly suggested, what's needed is a good rash of late-summer lightning storms and high winds out of the east to set things straight.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostMon Jul 10, 2017 2:20 pm 
Ski wrote:
As treeswarper has repeatedly suggested, what's needed is a good rash of late-summer lightning storms and high winds out of the east to set things straight.
But, NIMBY. I don't do well in the smoke anymore. Guess I could leave for a while though. It's early, the wind is blowing and rain is not in the forecast. We CAN hope. Joe Boom needs to sell fireworks at the Midway boundary! (Yes, I saw Joe Boom Fireworks in Omak) Love the name.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostFri Jul 27, 2018 10:54 pm 
Friday July 27, 2018 11:20 PDT On July 26, 2018, Cowlitz Valley District Ranger Gar Abbas decided to implement Alternative 2 of the Iron Crystal proposal, as described in the March 2018 Environmental Assessment. This decision includes approximately 2,486 acres of timber thinning, 130 acres of regeneration harvest, improvements to the transportation system, culvert replacements, 1.8 miles of road closure and stabilization, 0.3 miles of road decommissioning, and a suite of other restoration projects such as habitat and stream improvements, landing and meadow restoration, road, bridge, and trail work. The Decision Notice and Finding of No Significant Impact, as well as the Environmental Assessment and other analysis documents can be found on the forest's planning website, https://www.fs.usda.gov/projects/giffordpinchot/landmanagement/projects. Thank you for your interest in the management of our national forests! -USDA- ========================================================== ^ The regen harvest area was originally 187 acres - shaved down to 130 now. That was the "huckleberry enhancement" stuff. huh.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostSat Jul 28, 2018 6:02 am 
They had a very hard time selling their last sale or "project". I guess they had a lot of helicopter units and that was not economically viable to do. They had helicopter units where there were roads to the units. This is not unheard of but it has to be doable with enough timber volume to ..... allow the purchaser to make a bit of a profit. It was offered again, and again, and after some major tweaking sold. So many people retired and the young un's are having to learn on their own.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostSat Jul 28, 2018 11:18 am 
^ and without even looking I'd guess those were the regen units, most of which were right next to a road, but many of which would have required helicopter extraction. huh.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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